tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post6214048511637498162..comments2024-02-05T00:22:41.291-08:00Comments on Orthodox Messianic Judaism: Does G-d Really Want a Blood Sacrifice?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger142125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-78641771754737368942016-02-01T10:34:23.605-08:002016-02-01T10:34:23.605-08:00Hi Peter,
Thanks for your interesting thoughts!
...Hi Peter,<br /><br />Thanks for your interesting thoughts!<br /><br />On our website, someone also once wrote an article about following the Rabbinic traditions: http://kehilanews.com/2015/12/25/does-yeshua-command-us-to-follow-the-traditions-of-the-rabbis/<br /><br />If you are interested, you can take a look at our website for more news from Israel, written with a Messianic perspective!<br /><br />www.kehilanews.comElisabethhttp://www.kehilanews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-24775648074509240502016-02-01T05:37:17.317-08:002016-02-01T05:37:17.317-08:00"Then why are you trying to explain it?"..."Then why are you trying to explain it?" -Zion<br /><br />I'm explaining that you cannot understand infinity and the nature of HaShem. Get it? lolReal Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-84637244605975246882016-01-31T04:26:29.684-08:002016-01-31T04:26:29.684-08:00Very weak argument, 'Zion', considering I ...Very weak argument, 'Zion', considering I can prove and have proven the Jewish practice and view on atonement from the Tanakh, whereas there is absolutely no evidence in Tanakh of God becoming a man to sacrifice himself to himself for a mistake he himself supposedly made. That's about as stupid and illogical as you can get. It's a joke anyone actually believes that.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-22893131390392741912016-01-31T03:47:53.970-08:002016-01-31T03:47:53.970-08:00Yes it does, I proved these things from the Tanakh...Yes it does, I proved these things from the Tanakh in the video.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-49731276620134872252016-01-29T12:25:30.109-08:002016-01-29T12:25:30.109-08:00"this probably comes from a lack of education..."this probably comes from a lack of education in grammar"<br /><br />Is that supposed to be an insult?<br /><br />Note that my first language is not English and my education in grammar is sufficient in English, French and Spanish. What it does not mean is that G-d sent a second god. What does that mean if you are so wise to tell me? And will your explanation be polytheist?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-54758543921402785692016-01-29T11:41:40.009-08:002016-01-29T11:41:40.009-08:00Simply put, because G-d is infinite, he sent Isaia...<em>Simply put, because G-d is infinite, he sent Isaiah (not Jesus) and he was with him. He was sent by G-d and what Isaiah Said was inspired from G-d. I don't see any "second-person" or "third-person" in this sentence. Only the New-testament makes a distinction Between G-d and make another god of His Spirit...</em><br /><br />Remi, just like the rest of our discussions, you have a very hard time understanding and seeing distinctions, this probably comes from a lack of education in grammar and literary devices or it is simply deliberate, so I am not exactly surprised that you cannot see the distinction here either. Oh well, maybe one day. :DZionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-55853290392256537532016-01-29T09:49:39.886-08:002016-01-29T09:49:39.886-08:00Simply put, because G-d is infinite, he sent Isaia...Simply put, because G-d is infinite, he sent Isaiah (not Jesus) and he was with him. He was sent by G-d and what Isaiah Said was inspired from G-d. I don't see any "second-person" or "third-person" in this sentence. Only the New-testament makes a distinction Between G-d and make another god of His Spirit...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-91443920152489244102016-01-29T08:39:58.674-08:002016-01-29T08:39:58.674-08:00We cannot understand HaShem's nature, at the s...<em>We cannot understand HaShem's nature, at the source of who He is. </em><br /><br />Then why are you even trying to explain it? Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-5035350614446572512016-01-29T08:38:03.971-08:002016-01-29T08:38:03.971-08:00Please use a verse that shows that the Spirit of G...<em>Please use a verse that shows that the Spirit of G-d is not His Spirit, but a second person of G-d.</em><br /><br />I never said the Holy Spirit is not God's Spirit, I am talking about the distinction the scriptures make concerning God and the Holy Spirit. <br /><br />Take for example Isaiah 48:16<br />“Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there.<br />And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.”<br /><br />As you can see the Lord God is distinct from His Spirit in this context. But this is not entirely a new concept, I am sure you have heard Elohim is plural, and while some of the verses using Elohim are followed by a singular, some are followed by a plural. Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-26186413098141918022016-01-29T07:59:52.338-08:002016-01-29T07:59:52.338-08:00No, Zion, righteousness is by what you do, based o...<em>No, Zion, righteousness is by what you do, based on your belief in HaShem. He gave us rules, whether you're among the people of Israel or a gentile. You have to do those actions, they're what define you as righteous.<br /><br />Charity in Hebrew is צדקה which means righteousness. This act atones for sin, as I explained several times here already. Why does it atone for sin like a sacrifice? Because a major atoning aspect of the sacrifices is the offering up of something very valuable. Livestock was livelihood. Giving money away to those who need it is essentially the same thing.</em><br /><br />Your argument sounds nice in theory, but it does not deal with what the Torah actually says. Blood is required for atonement.Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-859623436832330152016-01-29T02:14:17.770-08:002016-01-29T02:14:17.770-08:00Read the Rambam's introduction to Mishne Torah...Read the Rambam's introduction to Mishne Torah, he explains where the oral Torah is mentioned in the text of the Torah. Also, God commands us to heed the Court established by Moses in Devarim 17.<br /><br />Ancient Israelite kings, prophets, heads of the Courts, and others had written copies of what they were told over regarding the details of the Torah (halakha and agada). Their copies were much like what the Mishna is today. The Dead Sea scrolls contain things like this.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-11173886632731343322016-01-29T02:09:45.824-08:002016-01-29T02:09:45.824-08:00God isn't anything that the human mind can com...God isn't anything that the human mind can comprehend. We can only comprehend how He interacts with creation. That's why we have different Names for Him that correspond to different ways in which He acts towards creation, all corresponding to the different Sefiroth.<br /><br />God Himself cannot be divided into anything, isn't a unity composed of parts, because He is above time, above space, and above matter since all of those three things are components of creation which He is not limited in.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-35807924151075826182016-01-29T02:05:08.817-08:002016-01-29T02:05:08.817-08:00No, Zion, righteousness is by what you do, based o...No, Zion, righteousness is by what you do, based on your belief in HaShem. He gave us rules, whether you're among the people of Israel or a gentile. You have to do those actions, they're what define you as righteous.<br /><br />Charity in Hebrew is צדקה which means righteousness. This act atones for sin, as I explained several times here already. Why does it atone for sin like a sacrifice? Because a major atoning aspect of the sacrifices is the offering up of something very valuable. Livestock was livelihood. Giving money away to those who need it is essentially the same thing.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-70862808322688635792016-01-28T15:13:02.585-08:002016-01-28T15:13:02.585-08:00Yes and following Christian Logic, god can be, the...Yes and following Christian Logic, god can be, the sun, the moon, the stars of heaven, Jesus, the wind, the golden calf and still be one. Prove me wrong if god is a complex unity. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-75952611134902536372016-01-28T14:27:22.690-08:002016-01-28T14:27:22.690-08:00(I'm the same A. Michael, just sick of logging...(I'm the same A. Michael, just sick of logging in and out of different accounts constantly)<br /><br />HaShem is one, there is no space for unity because where HaShem "is" is a place of infinity where there is no time, space, or matter, nor any plurality. We cannot understand HaShem's nature, at the source of who He is. To say that is a plural union is total BS and against the Shema`. This concept of a conceivable god that has different personas unified in some sort of oneness (i.e. parts to a whole) is pagan. The Sefiroth, lehavdil, are 10 ways in which we experience HaShem acting, they're each surrounded by hierarchy of HaShem's messengers and these 10 aspects of His actions manifest throughout creation. They're not entities in and of themselves, nor are they different parts to the One God who has no parts. Anyone who thinks of it like that automatically falls into heresy at the least. That's why Kabbalah isn't to be taught in any sort of depth to people who aren't grounded in the fundamentals of Torah.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-16020829276462767032016-01-28T12:42:56.345-08:002016-01-28T12:42:56.345-08:00Please use a verse that shows that the Spirit of G...Please use a verse that shows that the Spirit of G-d is not His Spirit, but a second person of G-d.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-51354596931547905542016-01-28T12:26:44.264-08:002016-01-28T12:26:44.264-08:00He is One God, and there is no other.
Correct.
...<em>He is One God, and there is no other. </em><br /><br />Correct.<br /><br /><em>And Jesus is by definition another if he speaks to G-d as someone else.</em><br /><br />Not correct. Unless you would like to claim that the Holy Spirit is a second god, thus staying consistent with your argument, since scripture makes a distinction between God and the Holy Spirit. <br /><br />With all this said, Remi, I am not here to convince you otherwise. You can believe whatever you like, that is the wonderful thing about free will. <br />Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-81152137162997642462016-01-28T12:16:35.283-08:002016-01-28T12:16:35.283-08:00He is One God, and there is no other.
And Jesus ...He is One God, and there is no other. <br /><br />And Jesus is by definition another if he speaks to G-d as someone else. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-3920978437842057642016-01-28T11:52:37.231-08:002016-01-28T11:52:37.231-08:00Zion, isn't it the great mystery of Paul (1 Ti...<em>Zion, isn't it the great mystery of Paul (1 Tim 3:16). So, The Jewish People who were mandate to worship only G-d and nobody else were tricked to believe G-d was one, when he had a mysterious plural unity. </em><br /><br />Remove Yeshua from the equation for a moment and consider that Judaism has even struggled with the nature of God. Despite the Torah stating God is One, we have to deal for example, with how the nature of the Holy Spirit relates to God. Judaism will claim this is an attribute of God, but since the scriptures make a distinction between God and the Holy Spirit, we see that this relationship is not as simplistic as we think. Simply stating it is a attribute of God just helps us to feel better about trying to grasp God's nature and still maintain that He is One God, and there is no other. This is a better place to start your argument, but it won't help. <br /><br />Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-84974446800068981032016-01-28T11:14:24.130-08:002016-01-28T11:14:24.130-08:00Zion, isn't it the great mystery of Paul (1 Ti...Zion, isn't it the great mystery of Paul (1 Tim 3:16). So, The Jewish People who were mandate to worship only G-d and nobody else were tricked to believe G-d was one, when he had a mysterious plural unity. Over and over G-d warns not to do that, and the Jews will burn in Hell because they did not understand that mystery. The hidden things belong to G-d, but the things revealed belong to us. It was revealed that G-d is one and that there is no other gods beside him. There is only one saviour and only one rock. But, the Jews, because of the Hebrew Bible did not accept Jesus, and will suffer in Hell forever and ever because G-d said He is one and there is no Jesus besides him.<br /><br />Make sense!<br /><br />My ignorance is a bliss...<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-18790265477868239472016-01-28T09:45:45.522-08:002016-01-28T09:45:45.522-08:00They absolutely can be merged and understood, whil...They absolutely can be merged and understood, while God is One, His nature is beyond ours. Much like how we understand the Holy Spirit in relation to God, without creating a dualistic nature or declaring God two, its not a hard concept to understand. No one in Messianic Judaism actually believes in multiple god's, Shema Israel, there is only One God.Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-24992193219529351452016-01-28T09:42:16.112-08:002016-01-28T09:42:16.112-08:00There is a difference between committing righteous...There is a difference between committing righteous acts, and atonement, you consistently make terrible arguments based on a lack distinction, there is a difference between rules and exceptions, there is a difference between atonement and righteousness, you should take time to actually learn what these terms mean and how they are used. As Jason questioned above, this is either trolling or willful ignorance.Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-70380345835678453362016-01-28T08:46:10.087-08:002016-01-28T08:46:10.087-08:00No Jason, I am not trolling you. There are tons of...No Jason, I am not trolling you. There are tons of example that shows someone righteous without any blood sacrifice. This example, being one of them. Phinehas, was declared righteous because he trusted G-d and decided to kill the person that caused the plague on Israel. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-30904950874703824772016-01-28T07:27:50.750-08:002016-01-28T07:27:50.750-08:00A. Michael, I agree. Messianic "Judaism"...A. Michael, I agree. Messianic "Judaism" requires one to recognize a man as G-d and to pray through an intermediary. These are forms of idolatry and cannot be merged with G-d's Torah. www.kiruvnow.comKiruvNow.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00746050243355541756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-36490880088472348142016-01-27T18:08:14.999-08:002016-01-27T18:08:14.999-08:00Remi,
You reason that Yeshua's death cannot b...Remi,<br /><br />You reason that Yeshua's death cannot bring atonement because of the prohibition against human sacrifice, and also claim that atonement doesn't require blood.<br /><br />As proof you reference the bloody account of when Phinehas received generational atonement by running two humans through with a javelin (Num 25).<br /><br />You trolling us?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.com