tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post6669142491426007362..comments2024-02-05T00:22:41.291-08:00Comments on Orthodox Messianic Judaism: Sharing Our Struggles: Question 15Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-6628258017031229492012-08-09T10:30:44.640-07:002012-08-09T10:30:44.640-07:00S. King,
Precisely! And that is such an apt word...S. King,<br /><br />Precisely! And that is such an apt word "xenophobia." So true.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-92042135922096074912012-08-09T02:35:05.923-07:002012-08-09T02:35:05.923-07:00One God, one law, one shepherd, one flock.
This x...One God, one law, one shepherd, one flock.<br /><br />This xenophobia is ridiculous.<br /><br />If "gentiles" are not to have same rules, then why does the nations flow to Mt. Zion to learn His ways and to walk in His paths? Why will His law go forth, of no one but Jews are to obey it?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937259408551635079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-28010720918619355582012-08-08T21:51:57.204-07:002012-08-08T21:51:57.204-07:00"Your accusation against Jewish believers is ..."Your accusation against Jewish believers is baseless and filled with prejudice."<br /><br />My accusation is not against Jewish believers, instead it is against people like you who are prejudice against gentiles, and you twist scripture thinking it some how justifies it, you are no different than supersessionist, just flip the coin. <br /><br />""This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel" (Ephesians 3:6)"<br /><br />Consider Ephesians 2, where it says Gentiles were at one point excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, before Messiah. Being part of the commonwealth of Israel is being part of Israel. But your prejudices have blinded you.<br /><br />Isaiah 56:3<br />Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely separate me from His people.”<br /><br />Yet, Gene will separate the foreigner in a heart beat. <br /><br />Good luck with that...Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-20316066918792730102012-08-08T18:45:31.110-07:002012-08-08T18:45:31.110-07:00With participants like Boom Boom Shlomovich, one c...With participants like Boom Boom Shlomovich, one cannot help but getting cynical....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-79469726550355674512012-08-08T18:19:20.669-07:002012-08-08T18:19:20.669-07:00"Instead, it is your view that Gentiles are n..."Instead, it is your view that Gentiles are not considered as now part of the family."<br /><br />Of course believing Gentiles are considered part of the family - the family of Abraham (Galatians 3:29) and family of G-d. Your accusation against Jewish believers is baseless and filled with prejudice.<br /><br />"This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel" (Ephesians 3:6)<br /><br />What does the above say? Heirs together <i>with</i> Israel - not AS Israel, as Supersessionism teaches.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-1972126255883361732012-08-08T17:38:23.227-07:002012-08-08T17:38:23.227-07:00Judah,
You are absolutely right. I for one will...Judah, <br /><br />You are absolutely right. I for one will try to make more of an effort to be less adversarial. I want to start focusing on how to build truly loving communities rather than devote all of my time calling out the ones I perceive to be unloving.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-87337418227543601162012-08-08T15:18:14.096-07:002012-08-08T15:18:14.096-07:00"OK, Zion, you are saying that I am racist fo..."OK, Zion, you are saying that I am racist for stating that G-d has accepted Gentiles as Gentiles and doesn't require them to convert to Judaism and also for saying that Abraham is their father too?"<br /><br />Nope. Instead, it is your view that Gentiles are not considered as now part of the family. Instead some separate family with a separate religion... The reason you are a racist is due to these beliefs, that you also share with FFOZ and BE groups.Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-18816830477155951172012-08-08T15:08:19.753-07:002012-08-08T15:08:19.753-07:00Judah, you are just as guilty of this as your fell...Judah, you are just as guilty of this as your fellow associates here. Time after time you've ripped into Messianic Jews and organizations on your blog. Where was your love of Yeshua in all the stuff you said?Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-21958591277977875182012-08-08T15:06:09.577-07:002012-08-08T15:06:09.577-07:00"Gene, you promote the same racist filth, you..."Gene, you promote the same racist filth, you should be ashamed of yourself."<br /><br />OK, Zion, you are saying that I am racist for stating that G-d has accepted Gentiles as Gentiles and doesn't require them to convert to Judaism and also for saying that Abraham is their father too? And I am the one who should be ashamed of spewing filth? What a warped thinking, like some alternative universe! It's like calling good evil, and evil good.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-62163974530802810212012-08-08T14:59:39.163-07:002012-08-08T14:59:39.163-07:00What's on my heart? The bitter division betwee...What's on my heart? The bitter division between the Messianic Jewish and the Hebrew Roots movements.<br /><br />It's why it's so sad to hear stuff like what Boaz said the other week. Ripping apart fellow disciples of Yeshua, speaking great ill of one another. Hebrew Roots folks have done this to Christians, and now Messianic Judaism folks are doing it to Hebrew Roots people.<br /><br />So sad to see among Yeshua's own disciples. Where is the love that's supposed to characterize us? Both groups uphold Yeshua and look to the Torah as a source for holy living, and how to we get along? We rip each other apart as "false friends of Israel", "supersessionists", "racists". <br /><br />Where is the love of Yeshua in that? And don't tell me it's all "righteous rebuke" -- anyone worth their salt can look at these arguments that take place in the Messianic blogosphere and see there's real bitterness, anger, vindictiveness there.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-33929896358297321762012-08-08T14:57:45.068-07:002012-08-08T14:57:45.068-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.PHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08091652796886392312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-74858968485020674382012-08-08T14:56:57.397-07:002012-08-08T14:56:57.397-07:00Exactly.Exactly.Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-53246424750127534072012-08-08T14:56:14.737-07:002012-08-08T14:56:14.737-07:00Gene, you promote the same racist filth, you shoul...Gene, you promote the same racist filth, you should be ashamed of yourself.Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-8914847169496617122012-08-08T14:52:59.098-07:002012-08-08T14:52:59.098-07:00Gene,
If you really check for once what One-Law t...Gene,<br /><br />If you really check for once what One-Law teaches you will find that they discourage gentiles from becoming Jews...Your slip (ignorance) is showing...Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-77015479718778084532012-08-08T14:39:53.282-07:002012-08-08T14:39:53.282-07:00"You're promoting that they have an unhea..."You're promoting that they have an unhealthy identity: non-Israelites. This makes them, understandably, feel excluded from G-d's people."<br /><br />G-d has included Gentiles as Gentiles. There's no need for fantasies. Abraham is the father of many nations.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-15557043000864746612012-08-08T14:37:09.186-07:002012-08-08T14:37:09.186-07:00Dan doesn't need courage. He doesn't assoc...Dan doesn't need courage. He doesn't associate with any Messianic Jews face-to-face and heart-to-heart, nor does he consider himself part of the Messianic Jewish movement. He's part of the "loyal opposition", working to tear down what he himself has not built.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-5251861859032960482012-08-08T14:33:47.690-07:002012-08-08T14:33:47.690-07:00Gene,
Their identity should be as Israelites, not...Gene,<br /><br />Their identity should be as Israelites, not Jews. Paul says to stop acting the way they did when they WERE gentiles (past tense). And Paul teaches them to view themselves as citizens of Israel with all attendant covenantal rights (Eph 2). So to teach them otherwise only promotes identity confusion. You're promoting that they have an unhealthy identity: non-Israelites. This makes them, understandably, feel excluded from G-d's people. It makes them desperate to feel included/approved/clean. Have you ever attended a UMJC synagogue? I've witnessed this phenomenon for years.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-67429991623379037372012-08-08T14:25:29.295-07:002012-08-08T14:25:29.295-07:00" It makes me sad that they've been indoc..." It makes me sad that they've been indoctrinated by the UMJC to feel like they're not as good unless they're ethnically Jewish."<br /><br />No, Peter, that's <i>exactly</i> what One-Law and Two-House has taught them. YOU believe that too, since you yourself have said on more than one occasion that there's nothing good about a person remaining a Gentile. That's what so sad, that you see in others what you yourself have perpetuated. Don't blame it on the Jews!Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-21423205117472073532012-08-08T13:55:15.041-07:002012-08-08T13:55:15.041-07:00Gene, I did not make a statement, I only pointed ...Gene, I did not make a statement, I only pointed people to Ahavat zion website were it was specifically stated that the congregation is for Jews and mixed marriage couple, nothing said a bout gentiles, which of course mirrors Dauermann's beliefs....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-12298235871816078132012-08-08T13:47:23.531-07:002012-08-08T13:47:23.531-07:00I applaud you for having the courage to speak out ...I applaud you for having the courage to speak out against this injustice, even though it means you will most certainly be attacked by Gene and others.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-27562814280043183132012-08-08T13:44:46.698-07:002012-08-08T13:44:46.698-07:00Gene,
Did you know that the Rabbis when they spok...Gene,<br /><br />Did you know that the Rabbis when they spoke of accepting a convert into Judaism, they said that the convert had "been brought near"? So this implies that before conversion the gentile must be kept apart, correct? Does that sound like Ephesians 2? Does it say "once you were separate but now you...well, you're still separate but..."?<br /><br />Also, these gentiles who stay in main line Messianic synagogues and they claim to love it...this does not prove that it's good for them. In fact, what you see is that the women feel like they have to marry a Jew in order to fit in and be accepted as family. What you hear them saying--and I know plenty of gentile women who attend UMJC synagogue--is them constantly saying "I think I have some Jewish ancestry" or "I just found out that I might have Jewish ancestry" or any number of variants. One night at a Shabbat dinner I literally heard at least three girls tell me that. It makes me sad that they've been indoctrinated by the UMJC to feel like they're not as good unless they're ethnically Jewish.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-52537214672526117122012-08-08T13:03:54.456-07:002012-08-08T13:03:54.456-07:00"The problem is that Dauermann's congrega..."The problem is that Dauermann's congregation did not accept Gentiles"<br /><br />Dan, I know some of the non-Jews who attend or attended (when he was there) his congregation. I've talked to them. Which makes your statement either ignorant or malicious (but probably both).Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-71311798160099948552012-08-08T12:40:34.869-07:002012-08-08T12:40:34.869-07:00The problem is that Dauermann's congregation d...The problem is that Dauermann's congregation did not accept Gentiles....Read their about us statement...Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-17865003387577858642012-08-08T10:43:25.505-07:002012-08-08T10:43:25.505-07:00"I could tell you stories about some of the i..."I could tell you stories about some of the inferiority complexes I've witnessed in such gentiles exposed to main line Messianic institutions, how entire lives have been destroyed because of it."<br /><br />And I could tell you many stories of just the opposite - of Gentiles richly blessed by being in Messianic Jewish congregations. The difference between your bitter stories and their stories of finding joy in fellowship with Jewish believers - expectations. Some time ago Stuart Dauermann addressed this problem of "disappointed Gentile friends" in this way:<br /><br />"What causes some Gentiles who visit my congregation to be disappointed with us? Only three things. First, they can experience disappointment when we lead them to expect something they do not receive. Second they can experience disappointment when they receive something unexpected, unpleasant, and unwelcome. Third, they can experience disappointment when they harbor expectations at variance with what they find with us."Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-51878187036731000842012-08-08T10:20:07.197-07:002012-08-08T10:20:07.197-07:00Just call Messianic Jews and their organizations &...Just call Messianic Jews and their organizations "Nazis" and "supremacists" and you'll feel so much better.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.com