tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post7261236988818880168..comments2024-02-05T00:22:41.291-08:00Comments on Orthodox Messianic Judaism: Should the Jewish People Have Expected a Divine Messiah?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-16021936429257730382016-03-31T10:52:47.155-07:002016-03-31T10:52:47.155-07:00Thanks for the prompt answer!!Thanks for the prompt answer!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11032672817841149472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-5071131633435001912016-03-31T08:21:16.143-07:002016-03-31T08:21:16.143-07:00Fabio,
I think you hit the nail on the head. It ...Fabio,<br /><br />I think you hit the nail on the head. It all comes down to a rejection of Yeshua. They changed their Theology to accommodate a rejection of Yeshua.<br /><br />Shalom,<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-28748541974578304482016-03-31T08:02:37.170-07:002016-03-31T08:02:37.170-07:00I am not Jewish, but I have heard great scholars a...I am not Jewish, but I have heard great scholars assert that the rabbis of old (before Rashi) believed that the Messiah would have a divine identity. The Targums identity the "Word" as being the entity through which the world was created. Why then was there such a change of mind since Rashi? It seems to me that since then Jewish authorities collectively decided to believe in a non-divine Messiah as a bold sign of rejecting Yeshua. How would you guys see it?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11032672817841149472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-7997000393679840492016-02-22T14:30:35.105-08:002016-02-22T14:30:35.105-08:00You can also translate... and the word was a god.
...You can also translate... and the word was a god.<br /><br />Revelation 22. Jesus says "I am the alpha and the omega" But again, some say that it's G-d speaking.<br /><br />And Romans says that every knees will bow to Jesus. Compare to Isaiah that say every knees will bow to G-d.<br /><br />If Jesus is not G-d, then you break the first commandment. If Jesus is G-d, then you don't, but it's nowhere found in the Tanakh. I think, as per the NT it's arguable both way, but I think none can stand if you compare with the Hebrew Bible. <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-66603269920455956702016-02-20T12:13:01.722-08:002016-02-20T12:13:01.722-08:00Yeah, it's very easy, and obvious. I just took...Yeah, it's very easy, and obvious. I just took John 1 at random, because I remember reading it as a Messianic years ago and remembering what it contained.<br /><br />I wouldn't mind taking a deeper look at sources in each, though.A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-28405453300590382572016-02-19T12:59:44.983-08:002016-02-19T12:59:44.983-08:00Thanks, Pete. (Your Mac has Python 2.7 by default....Thanks, Pete. (Your Mac has Python 2.7 by default.)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-80234289515122945632016-02-19T11:33:19.940-08:002016-02-19T11:33:19.940-08:00Thanks, Gene. What are friends for? :)Thanks, Gene. What are friends for? :)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-60494115964151661022016-02-19T11:24:38.431-08:002016-02-19T11:24:38.431-08:00That's good, Jason, quite clever:)That's good, Jason, quite clever:)Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-24104216178268531622016-02-19T11:09:23.352-08:002016-02-19T11:09:23.352-08:00This is too funny!This is too funny!Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-71359595994927206422016-02-19T10:53:02.509-08:002016-02-19T10:53:02.509-08:00(Blogspot hosed the spacing, so if you actually tr...(Blogspot hosed the spacing, so if you actually try to run that you'll need to indent the line(s) under if and else statements 4 spaces.)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-91276646836709700522016-02-19T10:48:39.062-08:002016-02-19T10:48:39.062-08:00print "Please answer the following questions ...print "Please answer the following questions about what the missionary said:"<br /><br />print "Was a rabbi mentioned? (Y/N)"<br />rabbi = raw_input("> ")<br /><br />if rabbi == "Y":<br /> print "Is the rabbi orthodox?"<br /> orthodox = raw_input("> ")<br /><br />print "Was there a challenge to English grammar or word choice? (Y/N)"<br />english = raw_input("> ")<br /><br />print "Is a specific verse requested?"<br />specific = raw_input("> ")<br /><br />print "Could this be considered a general inquiry? (Y/N)"<br />general = raw_input("> ")<br /><br />if rabbi == "Y" and orthodox == "Y":<br /> rabbi2 = "That quote misrepresents the rabbi's views... "<br /><br />if rabbi == "Y" and orthodox == "N":<br /> rabbi2 = "That rabbi teaches against the virtual consensus on that text... "<br /><br />if english == "Y":<br /> english2 = "The Tanakh is written in Hebrew not English... "<br /><br />if specific == "Y":<br /> specific2 = "The Tanakh teaches that Christianity is idolatry... "<br /><br />if general == "Y":<br /> general2 = "Read this for the answer: http://dailyminyan.com/2015/12/01/jesus-five-most-unbiblical-teachings "<br /><br />if rabbi != "Y" and english != "Y" and specific !="Y" and general !="Y":<br /> print "If you want to carve an idol or pretend not be bowing to a man-god, I can't help you. "<br />else:<br /> print rabbi2 + english2 + specific2 + general2<br /><br />Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-67681830248270576452016-02-19T10:47:49.242-08:002016-02-19T10:47:49.242-08:00Hey Gene,
I put together a quick Python (2.7) scri...Hey Gene,<br />I put together a quick Python (2.7) script to save you some time. Just trying to help :)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-4243988787960328022016-02-19T09:56:01.870-08:002016-02-19T09:56:01.870-08:00Almost forgot - and look up the false prophecies m...Almost forgot - and look up the false prophecies made by Jesus too.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-53937083432379280462016-02-19T08:51:30.834-08:002016-02-19T08:51:30.834-08:00Jason, it's not very hard - do you own homewor...Jason, it's not very hard - do you own homework. Look up ANY instances in the Greek Testament where Jesus is given worship or where he was called G-d or where it was implied that he is a deity in any way or places he says that without him no one can know G-d or that only he knows G-d or that his murder somehow forgives sins or where he forgives sins himself, and you'll see conflicts with Tanakh.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-35323713878124367602016-02-19T05:27:43.149-08:002016-02-19T05:27:43.149-08:00I'm not looking for anything exhaustive, but t...I'm not looking for anything exhaustive, but to start, an example or two of where AW verses conflict with Tanakh verses. I read Gene's blog post on this but don't remember anything irrefutable. Thanks for this and for the Hebrew searches you did.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-16638286911431366232016-02-19T00:12:03.309-08:002016-02-19T00:12:03.309-08:00So you're saying you'd like verse referenc...So you're saying you'd like verse references in both the "AW" and Tanakh?A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-10646818367644370692016-02-18T11:49:45.768-08:002016-02-18T11:49:45.768-08:00Still would like to see the correlation between th...Still would like to see the correlation between the AW and idolatry as seen in the Torah (verse references please).<br /><br />I owe you a response on John 1:1, which I assume you're referring to with that last comment.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-76275600814922944982016-02-18T11:45:05.910-08:002016-02-18T11:45:05.910-08:00If you think God is human or finite in any way, sh...If you think God is human or finite in any way, shape, or form, that "god" isn't the actual God who created the universe.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-85651021090595028722016-02-18T11:39:07.049-08:002016-02-18T11:39:07.049-08:00It would be helpful to look some of these terms up...It would be helpful to look some of these terms up in context so we can see how they apply to the apostolic writings. Any verse references are appreciated. If you continue to assume sarcasm or playing stupid from me, you're mistaken. Honest pursuit of information here. The charge of idolatry, however you mean the term, is serious.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-37576569423722396242016-02-18T11:19:55.284-08:002016-02-18T11:19:55.284-08:00We HAVE listened.
Jesus/man-god/idol/sinner/ per...We HAVE listened. <br />Jesus/man-god/idol/sinner/ personal insult, repeat<br />Jesus/man-god/idol/sinner/ personal insult, repeat<br />Jesus/man-god/idol/sinner/ personal insult, repeat<br />Jesus/man-god/idol/sinner/personal insult, repeat<br />....droning on.....Mercifulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589161951147196895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-11942155519036813512016-02-18T09:31:49.305-08:002016-02-18T09:31:49.305-08:00I searched, and the exact term עבודה זרה ("fo...I searched, and the exact term עבודה זרה ("foreign worship") isn't found in Tanakh, because it is a Rabbinic term that sums up all idolatrous worship, used for ease of understanding.<br /><br />In Tanakh, idols and false gods are called אלילים (false gods), אלהים אחרים (other gods), עצבים (roughly translated as "depressions", "anxieties"), בושות (shames), and likely others, these are all I can think of off the top of my head.<br /><br />Jason's attempt to say idolatry isn't mentioned in Tanakh is stupid and deceitful because עבודה זרה sums up the worship of anything other than HaShem, bar none. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. This term sums up ALL those terms in the Tanakh and more.<br /><br />Interestingly, names like "Ish-ba`al" (man of ba`al) were changed to "Ish-bosheth" (man of shame), since idolatry, worshiping anything other than HaShem alone, is the ultimate shame. You can see this throughout the Tanakh, especially Samuel and Kings.Real Breslovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11360337281146202544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-88864482513250565432016-02-18T08:39:36.885-08:002016-02-18T08:39:36.885-08:00(I don't have a way to search the Bible for He...(I don't have a way to search the Bible for Hebrew words.)<br /><br />Anybody has?<br /><br />That would be great! blueletterbible is limited. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-641206434290395592016-02-18T04:54:20.928-08:002016-02-18T04:54:20.928-08:00(Does עבודה זרה occur anywhere in the Tanakh?)(Does עבודה זרה occur anywhere in the Tanakh?)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-22573424127237362072016-02-18T04:52:03.539-08:002016-02-18T04:52:03.539-08:00Dan,
Aaron likens עבודה זרה to the word idolatry.
...Dan,<br />Aaron likens עבודה זרה to the word idolatry.<br /><br />Does this phrase occur in Torah or just the rabbinic writings? If so, where? (I don't have a way to search the Bible for Hebrew words.)<br /><br />Thanks.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-22635015771361718522016-02-17T20:18:18.784-08:002016-02-17T20:18:18.784-08:00This is a great point, Dan. This is why I try to s...This is a great point, Dan. This is why I try to steer conversations toward the manuscripts. At the end of the day, both camps have manuscripts, translations, and traditions (in that order).<br /><br />First, the youngest apostolic manuscripts are 500 to 1000 years older than the oldest rabbinic manuscripts. If apostolic writings are subject to legend and scribal edits, how much more the rabbinic!<br /><br />Second, what do the apostolic writings say in the original languages? How Gentiles used these Jewish writings to persecute Jews is irrelevant. Likewise the accusation that Yeshua is a carved image (e.g. idol). Even the trinity doctrine, like all doctrine, is an effort by man to explain certain passages.<br /><br />Third, if you accept the authenticity of these ancient apostolic texts, Yeshua was seen alive after death and an appeal is made to the eyewitnesses. If one denies the apostolic account how much more the rabbinic.<br /><br />There is no requirement to accept trinitarianism or idol-making in the apostolic writings. These are merely red herrings intended to make their author feel better about the rabbinic writings.<br />Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106034649862592473noreply@blogger.com