tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post7651720963415421536..comments2024-02-05T00:22:41.291-08:00Comments on Orthodox Messianic Judaism: The On-Going Mosaic Office in Judaism: A Review and Analysis of Kinzer’s Writings on Oral TorahUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-77490844235011953582015-09-15T14:42:31.519-07:002015-09-15T14:42:31.519-07:00Anonymous,
I'd love to see you pull this nons...Anonymous,<br /><br />I'd love to see you pull this nonsense in a courtroom: "Well, your Honor, I have evidence but it's a secret and I'm not telling...perhaps if you beg me then I'll tell you."<br /><br />If you don't want to support your assertion that Yeshua's teachings on divorce deviated from the Torah of Moses then I'm not going to beg you to make your case. And, based on your last sentence, if you want to assume that I'm in agreement with you, despite all evidence to the contrary, then, frankly you might want to seek professional help. Alternatively, if you're just being asinine then shame on you.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-64172292444399915202015-09-15T13:35:54.321-07:002015-09-15T13:35:54.321-07:00Peter, you can't just make a statement and bel...Peter, you can't just make a statement and believe you have "proven" anything. You have not compared the differences between what Moses taught on divorce "allowed" and what Yeshua taught. They are not the same, but you do not know the differences. <br /><br />There have been great studies done on this, you would not even have to reinvent the wheel, but you would have to take the time to study.<br /><br />You did not address my other questions, so I will assume you have come to agree with me on them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-75984907339357148822015-09-15T13:11:08.184-07:002015-09-15T13:11:08.184-07:00Anonymous,
Moses wrote that divorce was permissib...Anonymous,<br /><br />Moses wrote that divorce was permissible if there was "ervah" which refers to fornication (see Deuteronomy 24:1). Yeshua said the same thing that Moses said! <br /><br />Again and again, you are PROVEN wrong.<br /><br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-20622208623577930742015-09-15T13:07:19.569-07:002015-09-15T13:07:19.569-07:00Anonymous,
David consulted the Urim and Thummim o...Anonymous,<br /><br />David consulted the Urim and Thummim of the High Priest which was authorized by the Torah of Moses:<br /><br />"Also put the Urim and the Thummim in the breastpiece, so they may be over Aaron's heart whenever he enters the presence of the LORD. Thus Aaron will always bear the means of making decisions for the Israelites over his heart before the LORD," Exodus 28:30<br /><br />So all of that was anticipated by Torah of Moses. The Torah of Moses was perfect and anticipated everything. <br /><br />Nice try.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-8855856768289036282015-09-15T11:57:57.978-07:002015-09-15T11:57:57.978-07:00And as I leave, I will say to anyone reading this ...And as I leave, I will say to anyone reading this thread that Peter believes Yeshua only taught the law of Moses, but Yeshua himself said he taught alot more:<br /><br />"Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you."<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-14901138596915818582015-09-15T11:35:50.949-07:002015-09-15T11:35:50.949-07:00So, you do not believe that Moses allowed divorce ...So, you do not believe that Moses allowed divorce for any reason, but Yeshua forbids divorce for any reason except fornication?<br /><br />Anyway, Peter I am going to take your command to take my teaching and get lost. I leave you in Gods hand. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-51013954132870151842015-09-15T11:26:57.954-07:002015-09-15T11:26:57.954-07:00Good, so next question.
“And the LORD said unto...Good, so next question. <br /> “And the LORD said unto David, Go up: for I will doubtless deliver the Philistines into thine hand.”<br />Is that commandment in the Law of Moses concerning the King?<br />“And when David enquired of the LORD, he said, Thou shalt not go up; but fetch a compass behind them, and come upon them over against the mulberry trees.<br />And let it be, when thou hearest the sound of a going in the tops of the mulberry trees, that then thou shalt bestir thyself: for then shall the LORD go out before thee, to smite the host of the Philistines.<br />And David did so, as the LORD had commanded him; <br /><br />Should David have said “no, Lord, that is not in the Torah of Moses… I shall not add to it or take from it.”<br /><br />Was other law needed for the current situation? Or, should God have answered David saying "why are you asking me what to do, I told you all instruction (Torah) in the Law of Moses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-35897785248182027582015-09-15T09:22:51.552-07:002015-09-15T09:22:51.552-07:00Anonymous,
That's an excellent example of Yes...Anonymous,<br /><br />That's an excellent example of Yeshua stating exactly what is already in the Torah of Moses. Notice that Yeshua affirms that the commandment regarding a writ of divorcement is a "precept". In other words, Yeshua acknowledged that this was the law. It makes sense that Yeshua didn't abolish this law given that Yeshua states explicitly "Don't think I've come to abolish the law, I have not come to abolish but rather to exemplify". <br /><br />Nice try.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-72226678395993878432015-09-15T09:14:58.996-07:002015-09-15T09:14:58.996-07:00Anonymous,
Yes, Deuteronomy 17.Anonymous,<br /><br />Yes, Deuteronomy 17.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-31158715928390264892015-09-15T09:08:09.085-07:002015-09-15T09:08:09.085-07:00""He taught far MORE than the Torah of M...""He taught far MORE than the Torah of Moses" <br /><br />And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.<br /><br />And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?<br /><br />And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.<br /><br />And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.<br /><br />But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.<br /><br />For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;<br /><br />And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.<br /><br />What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.<br /><br />And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.<br /><br />And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.<br /><br />And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-75187965183546777722015-09-15T08:37:53.216-07:002015-09-15T08:37:53.216-07:00Peter, is the law concerning Israel getting a King...Peter, is the law concerning Israel getting a King in the Torah of Moses?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-71539969851559653192015-09-15T08:13:56.346-07:002015-09-15T08:13:56.346-07:00Anonymous,
You originally said "He taught fa...Anonymous,<br /><br />You originally said "He taught far MORE than the Torah of Moses" and "So, the scripture has a clear progression of law and Yeshua’s teachings are part of that progression."<br /><br />But now you're saying that no other law is needed.<br /><br />That's a contradiction.<br /><br />Take your arrogance and false teachings elsewhere.<br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-16942570892904185662015-09-15T07:58:55.862-07:002015-09-15T07:58:55.862-07:00"In short, you're saying that ANOTHER law..."In short, you're saying that ANOTHER law is needed in order to account for a changing progression."<br /><br />No, what I am saying is this: Hebrew 4:12 "See, the Word of God is alive! "<br />So, Peter, if you knew the Torah and you knew Yeshua's teachings you would not ask me to show you. Does this mean you acknowledge you do not know these and need my help?<br /><br />Or, do you know all things and just look for a "gottcha" moment?<br /><br />I have given you enough of a Torah lesson for today. You need to study. Search the torah for the commandments of Yeshua, then tell me the ones you do not find.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-38044702288812242072015-09-15T07:45:19.130-07:002015-09-15T07:45:19.130-07:00Anonymous,
So your position is that the Torah of ...Anonymous,<br /><br />So your position is that the Torah of Moses was all that they needed at the time but that later on it suddenly became insufficient--that the Torah of Moses was incomplete and did not provide enough instructions for what the Israelites would later need to govern Israel. In short, you're saying that ANOTHER law is needed in order to account for a changing progression.<br /><br />So prove it. <br /><br />Show us which laws needed to be added later on. You wrote "Yeshua's teachings are part of that progression." So which of Yeshua's teachings were not in the Torah of Moses? <br /><br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-17463039816540116022015-09-15T05:59:28.881-07:002015-09-15T05:59:28.881-07:00Peter, you seem to have a problem reading and unde...Peter, you seem to have a problem reading and understanding. When you twist someones words as you have done several times in this string, it is called "wickedness". <br /><br />I did not say there were laws they needed that were not given, but the opposite. They were given the law needful at the right time.<br /><br />Was Torah given to Adam and Eve in the garden? Did they receive more after they sinned? Why?<br /><br />Was there law given to Abraham and his family? Did they receive more before leaving Egypt (think Passover, etc.) Did they receive more after passing over on dry land (think manna, etc)? Did they receive more at the mountain (think Ten Commandments)? <br /><br />Did they receive the Torah of a king at the mountain, or only after they were in the land and had rejected God to rule over them? <br /><br />Where in the Torah is the commandment concerning the sons of Zadok? Was it not given when needed? What about the commandment concerning David and Solomon to build the temple? Were they ready for that in the wilderness?<br /><br />So, the scripture has a clear progression of law and Yeshua’s teachings are part of that progression. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-14304075821242076032015-09-15T05:09:46.220-07:002015-09-15T05:09:46.220-07:00Anonymous,
So you're saying the Torah of Mose...Anonymous,<br /><br />So you're saying the Torah of Moses was incomplete. Which laws are you saying were not given in the Torah of Moses that the Israelites needed but were not ready for? Pray tell.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-24906215054852680032015-09-14T19:59:50.834-07:002015-09-14T19:59:50.834-07:00So, you have a small child with much to learn. Sh...So, you have a small child with much to learn. She is 2 yrs old and you give her a set of rules to follow. You tell her "it is enough" but one day there will be more. You don't tell her the rules about teenage dating. Why? <br /><br />But, one day you DO tell her those rules. Have you added to the instruction? Or, do you only require the 2 yr old rules neglecting to advance the instruction as she grows?<br /><br />So is Torah. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-53420026218879499452015-09-14T19:46:49.699-07:002015-09-14T19:46:49.699-07:00"You are saying that He violated Torah by add..."You are saying that He violated Torah by adding to it?"<br /><br />Peter, this type of question is why I stated you do not know the scriptures. You do not know the Torah, and you do not know Yeshua's teachings, and so you are unable to compare and contrast. <br /><br />Torah states that "you shall not add" does not mean "God shall not complete, correct, or fill up". Yeshua was not speaking his own words or his own doctrine, but the fathers.<br /><br />"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-62522506372718315092015-09-14T12:47:26.820-07:002015-09-14T12:47:26.820-07:00Anonymous,
"Do not add to what I command you...Anonymous,<br /><br />"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you," Deuteronomy 4:2<br /><br />You wrote: "He taught far MORE than the Torah of Moses."<br /><br />You are saying that He violated Torah by adding to it?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-66556424843117461612015-09-14T11:14:54.151-07:002015-09-14T11:14:54.151-07:00Anonymous,
"Do not add to what I command you...Anonymous,<br /><br />"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you," Deuteronomy 4:2<br /><br />You wrote: "He taught far MORE than the Torah of Moses."<br /><br />You are saying that He violated Torah by adding to it?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-50231863178515591022015-09-14T11:11:42.548-07:002015-09-14T11:11:42.548-07:00Anyone reading this had better consider:
Yeshua...Anyone reading this had better consider: <br /><br />Yeshua did not get his idea's from Moses. Yeshua was before Abraham. Yeshua IS THE WORD made flesh. Anything that Moses recieved from heaven concerning THE WORD came from the father and NOT from Moses.<br /><br />Yeshua did not teach Moses. Moses taught Yeshua. Period.<br /><br />And at that name EVERY knee shall bow....and that includes Moses. Shalom :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-64893078499862085142015-09-14T10:56:33.346-07:002015-09-14T10:56:33.346-07:00Peter, you had better read again slowly....
He ta...Peter, you had better read again slowly....<br /><br />He taught far MORE than the Torah of Moses. So it is not either/or. That is YOU'RE game.<br /><br />Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness to teach Yeshua. Yeshua did not lift up ANYTHING to teach about Moses.<br /><br />Moses was not worthy to unlatch the sandle of Yeshua. He disobeyed God, Yeshua did not. When God commanded Moses to speak, he refused. When God commanded Yeshua to speak, he obeyed.<br /><br />The seat of Moses is for judgment. All judgement is given to the son. Get with the program Peter. :) <br /><br />Someone is coming in great POWER and his fathers GLORY with Tens of Thousands of his saints.......and it ain't Moses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-90037203495786089082015-09-14T10:29:33.023-07:002015-09-14T10:29:33.023-07:00Anonymous,
Did you or did you not say that we are...Anonymous,<br /><br />Did you or did you not say that we are not commanded to receive Moses' words but rather only Yeshua's words? And you said that Yeshua did not preach the words of Moses!<br /><br />What kind of silly semantic games are you playing? <br /><br />Either he taught the Torah of Moses or He did not! Which do you believe?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-79952590598299087832015-09-14T08:45:13.140-07:002015-09-14T08:45:13.140-07:00Peter believes Yeshua only taught Moses, but the t...Peter believes Yeshua only taught Moses, but the truth is Moses taught Yeshua, not the other way around.<br /><br />"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."<br /><br />"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me."<br /><br />"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-2666849754774698202015-09-14T07:38:53.953-07:002015-09-14T07:38:53.953-07:00You will not stand before Moses and give an accoun...You will not stand before Moses and give an account. Why? What judgement seat will you stand before? Mosaic Office? Moses' book of life?<br /><br />"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."<br /><br />Is this Moses? "Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead."<br /><br />Is this Moses? "For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people."<br /><br />Is this Moses? "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"<br /><br />Finally, "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."<br /><br />Not "the word Moses has spoken"<br /><br />Wickedness? You judge too quickly and falsely<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com