tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post9153213824295339163..comments2024-02-05T00:22:41.291-08:00Comments on Orthodox Messianic Judaism: A Letter to My Friend Who is Being Trained by UMJC to be a RabbiUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-44520400269523481622019-12-23T21:05:04.348-08:002019-12-23T21:05:04.348-08:00fila
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But this is Gene's MO. Look how he ke...Peter,<br /><br />But this is Gene's MO. Look how he keeps mischaracterizing the teachings of OL...Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-72202575467971548372012-08-20T12:34:04.607-07:002012-08-20T12:34:04.607-07:00Rick,
Agreed. Michael Brown has conducted himself...Rick,<br /><br />Agreed. Michael Brown has conducted himself honorably. I'm also a big fan of his.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-85467374719118637912012-08-20T12:32:04.647-07:002012-08-20T12:32:04.647-07:00No Gene, I am not a friend of BE. I was talking ab...No Gene, I am not a friend of BE. I was talking about an enemy of BE though - traditional Christianity. They truly ARE supercessionist - nothing imaginary at all there...<br /><br />Although Michael Brown may not appreciate my Torah lifestyle, I greatly appreciate him even though I may not always agree with his theology.<br /><br />Also, Michael Brown does not call folks like me "supercessionist" nor does he teach a form of post-modern Christianity being passed as "orthodox", and pretend that he is the only valid form of Judaism.<br /><br />Even if I disagree with him, he is far more honorable and transparent.Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-33310788372648985012012-08-20T11:16:07.529-07:002012-08-20T11:16:07.529-07:00Gene,
A straw man is when one purposefully mischa...Gene,<br /><br />A straw man is when one purposefully mischaracterizes the opponent's position in order to attack it. So for you to prove your assertion that I've mischaracterized the UMJC, you would need to demonstrate that their position is different from what I've quoted above. You've offered no such evidence. You better go ahead and provide some so that people don't think you're making desperate rhetorical ploys out of sheer frustration for having no adequate rebuttal to the substance of my argument. : ) <br /><br />Shalom,<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-42555756623583298162012-08-20T09:37:16.398-07:002012-08-20T09:37:16.398-07:00"I feel that the UMJC is teaching something v..."I feel that the UMJC is teaching something very hurtful: the teaching that gentiles should not follow the Torah."<br /><br />Peter, why would you tell your friend something that wasn't true? There's a world of difference between being lawless / not following Torah (period) and not being obligated to certain aspects of it or in the same way. A classic straw man attack... Hopefully, your friend sees it for what it is and takes you to task.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-49126108665603477562012-08-20T06:40:42.598-07:002012-08-20T06:40:42.598-07:00"In an attempt to frame their brand of Messia..."In an attempt to frame their brand of Messianic Judaism as the only "authentic" one, they have practiced a diplomacy like the US State Department: kiss your enemies and criticize your friends."<br /><br />Rick, what are you talking about? Who are the enemies of the Messianic Jews that we are suppose to see and treat as enemies? Our own Jewish people? What "friends" are we criticizing? <i>You?</i><br /><br />As far as Michael Brown goes, I doubt he has anything praiseworthy to say about One-Law/Two-House groups.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-63424161657814575772012-08-20T06:09:50.800-07:002012-08-20T06:09:50.800-07:00I will send him the link immediately. Thanks for ...I will send him the link immediately. Thanks for the suggestion!Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03742087402667360623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-59238633711283230622012-08-20T03:26:08.881-07:002012-08-20T03:26:08.881-07:00Well said Peter!
One you read some of the conveni...Well said Peter!<br /><br />One you read some of the convenient and anachronistic teachings of some of the leaders of UMJC and FFOZ, it makes you wonder.<br /><br />Although I do not always agree with Michael Brown, when I read Kesher, I have to. In an attempt to frame their brand of Messianic Judaism as the only "authentic" one, they have practiced a diplomacy like the US State Department: kiss your enemies and criticize your friends.Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-30427005431669260712012-08-19T22:16:20.541-07:002012-08-19T22:16:20.541-07:00Great article Peter, I agree, I hope he has some u...Great article Peter, I agree, I hope he has some understanding of this... You can also link him to Tim Hegg's writings, Tim Hegg does an excellent job of exposing these false theologies held by groups like UMJC. Zionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-4357114745414748182012-08-19T20:23:55.203-07:002012-08-19T20:23:55.203-07:00Messiah is a Jewish concept rooted in Judaism. To ...Messiah is a Jewish concept rooted in Judaism. To violently rip out of its context by making Yeshua a generic "Messiah" devoid of the Judaism he upheld and by making his Jewishness (and that of his Jewish followers) a mere ethnic construct, you do no better than what Christianity has done for the last two thousands years. Many Christians, whoever, are waking up to that fact, just as you are falling asleep.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-44466638193143247592012-08-19T18:32:10.838-07:002012-08-19T18:32:10.838-07:00Gene,
I am about had enough of you twisting the t...Gene,<br /><br />I am about had enough of you twisting the teachings of OL to support your agenda. You want to be credible? Then support your claims with Scriptures rather than your private inventions...<br /><br />FYI, OL teaches that our identity is IN MESSIAH, not in Judaism or Gentilism. Can you show where Paul say even one time "in Judaism?" I can show you many places where he said "In Messiah." So put up or shut up.....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5143697192802548581.post-63406797030198076822012-08-19T18:10:16.694-07:002012-08-19T18:10:16.694-07:00Peter, the theology of One-Law you espouse is supp...Peter, the theology of One-Law you espouse is supported neither in the Torah, nor by the Jewish sages, nor by the apostles, nor by Judaism today, nor by Messianic Judaism, nor by Christianity. It's a tortured theology, born out of age-old Supersessionism that imagined Christians as the New Jews/New Israel. One Law theology can't stand an ongoing Jewish peculiarity. Variations of it are practiced today by groups such as Seventh Day Adventists and World Wide Churches of G-d. This theology requires one to chuck out or reformulate huge tracts of text in order to support itself. It has few if any reputable scholars or peer-reviewed academic texts to defend its views in the market of ideas.<br /><br />It's anti-Christianity, which it views as pagan and lawless (but ironically, apart from One-Law beliefs, differs little from mainstream American Evangelicalism). It's anti-Judaism, since Judaism contradicts One-Law theology and fights against attempt to erase Jewish distinction (but it doesn't shy away from misusing Judaism as it sees fit). It's anti-Messianic Judaism, since Messianic Judaism has long rejected OL Theology as destructive to the movement. Because if that the OL movement has been perpetually angry with Messianic Jews.<br /><br />It's a movement that from the onset was based on jealousy of Israel as a chosen nation to whom belong the rights to interpret the Torah.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.comnoreply@blogger.com