Shalom and welcome to my Messianic Judaism discussion blog! I want this to be THE place where Messianics can come together and discuss what's on their heart. Spread the word about this blog and let's all work together to bring unity to the Body! Shalom!
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Why You'll Never Be Accepted by Orthodox Judaism or an Orthodox Shul
I've taken the trouble of typing up some excerpts from a wonderful book by Attridge entitled "Eusebius, Christianity, and Judaism" that explains the history behind the fact that if you're an Orthodox Messianic Jew, you will ALWAYS be excluded from modern Orthodox shuls (if you're open about your beliefs).
"...following amendment of the twelfth of the Eighteen Benedictions, Christian Jews were legally excommunicated from the synagogue sometime in the 80s. The fourth gospel was written in the midst of this conflict with the intention of clarifying Christian self-identification by showing that Jesus is more than the expected Jewish Messiah, that he is God himself," pg. 366
pg. 356 "When the Temple was destroyed during the First Jewish War, the Jewish people were plunged into chaos...In the midst of this chaos, however, a new movement appeared: rabbinic Judaism. Under the leadership of Rabbi Yohanan Ben Zacchai...they parted company with apocalyptic messianism [Messianic Judaism]. This was the beginning of Jewish orthodoxy.
During the course of this reformation of Judaism, the Beth Din, probably in the 80s, approved a revision of the Eighteen Benedictions. If J. L. Martyn's thesis is correct, the twelfth of the revised Eighteen Benedictions pronounced the Nazarenes heretics [Martyn, History and Theology]. ...Christian Jews were no longer able to remain in Jewish society.
Prior to this decision, there seems to have been some uncertainty among both Jews and Christian Jews as to whether the Jesus-is-the-Messiah movement [i.e. Messianic Judaism] should be regarded as one of the new Jewish sects. With regard to the Jewish camp, we find the views of the Pharisee Gamaliel summarized in Acts 5:38-39: 'Now my advice to you is this: keep clear of these men, let them alone. For if what is being planned and done is human in origin, it will collapse; but if it is from God, you will never be able to stamp it out, and you risk finding yourselves at war with God.' The next verse indicates the Sanhedrin's response: 'they sent for the apostles and had them flogged; then they ordered them to give up speaking in the name of Jesus, and discharged them,'" pg. 356
"...there was an ambiguous stage in the development of Christianity when Jewish Christians or Christian Jews were less than clear about whether their movement was to be identified, at least on the surface, as a sect within the framework of the Jewish religion. What they were first called is not entirely clear. They may have been called followers of 'the way'....or 'the sect of the Nzarenes'....But it is well known that 'it was in Antioch that the disciples first got the name of Christians'..." pg. 357
"Another momentous consequence of the Jamnia decision was that Christianity, because of being excluded from the Jewish religion, no longer enjoyed the protection of a religio licita that Judaism did under the Roman Empire. The persecution and martyrdom that began in the 90s is directly attributable to the change in legal status that followed from this decision," pg. 358
p.g 367 "The Jewish decision to excommunicate Christians from the synagogue, a decision reflected in John 9:22 [also 12:42 and 16:2]..."
"His parents gave this answer because they were afraid of the Jews; for the Jewish authorities had already agreed that anyone who acknowledged Jesus as Messiah should be banned from the synagogue" (John 9:22)
"For all that, even among those in authority many believed in him, but would not acknowledge him on account of the Pharisees, for fear of being banned from the synagogue" (John 12:42)
"They will ban you from the synagogue; indeed, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will suppose that he is serving God," (John 16:2).
I believe Gene has a different perspective on this as he attends an Orthodox synagogue (not messianic, if I recall) and is accepted there, even though it is known (to what extent, I don't know) that he knows Yeshua to be the Messiah. Actually, he can better attest to this than I. Gene?
ReplyDeleteNo, they're not allowed to accept him. Every traditional Jew in the world prays against the apostates. An apostate is anyone who disagrees with Rambam's Thirteen Principles.
DeleteGene has certainly exposed himself to his Orthodox congregation because he's a public figure in Messianic Judaism. This means his Orthodox community is obligated by Rabbinic law to consider him an apostate.
It's pretty cut and dry. If you believe in Yeshua, you cannot be accepted in an Orthodox shul.
I knew this Messianic Rabbi who would often talk about how his parents reacted when he told them he was a Believer in Yeshua. They did what any non-Messianic Jews would do: they sat shiva. They treated it as though their son had died. They had no son anymore!
Why did they do this? On a whim? No, out of a misplaced/misguided sense of duty to Rabbinic law.
This is not accurate, Peter.
ReplyDeleteChabad always says that Jew remains a Jew even if he is blind or an apostate.
But does this mean that they accept an apostate as he is? Not at all. If you are an apostate Jew (in their eyes) then you must make teshuvah.
DeleteYes, but they will not kick me out from Shabbat services. Isn't that what you were advocating for?
ReplyDeleteThey might not, but MJ organizations would... :D
DeleteDan,
DeleteIf you preach Yeshua and they accept you with open arms then let me know which congregation that is so that I can start attending. Deal?
When we lived in Palmdale Cal. My wife and I attended a Chabad synagogue. They did not have a problem with us believing Yeshua is Messiah. It was us who decided not to attend anymore since they deny our Messiah.
ReplyDeleteMany Chabad people who know our beliefs are still inviting us, because they invite any one no matter of their religious persuasion. what they would not do is attend our congregations....
Dan,
ReplyDeleteI had a friend who thought the same thing about Chabad. They're just a friendly, open-minded Chassidic organization. WRONG. They brainwashed him into rejecting Yeshua.
What did he expect? And I never said that they are open-minded. Was your friend Jewish?
ReplyDeleteYes, he's Jewish. However, my point is that a religious group will only accept you if they don't see you as a threat to their religion. Chabad perceives Messianic Judaism to be a dangerous heresy and, therefore, a threat. Thus, they can't really accept you. And if you preach Yeshua there then what do you think will happen? They'll invite you to be rabbi?
DeleteAnyway, Dan, have a good Shabbos.
Why is this such a big problem? Do the chabbad reject Hashem do they follow what Hashem told yes they do. How many more walls do we want to build? I want moshiach to come speedily in our days and full redemptionof our people. That's why Torah must be taught to the nations this is not joining a club this life. Choice it love each group.
ReplyDeleteDoes chabad follow what HaShem told???
DeleteHaShem says to follow Yeshua haMoshiach. They don't follow Yeshua. Thus, they're not following HaShem.
Shalom...
ReplyDeleteDo we not all see through a 'glass darkly' and await the unity scripture speaks of?
Either you believe in HaShem's appointed Moshiach or you don't. Either you're saved or you're not.
DeleteSo regarding Yeshua and salvation, it's irrelevant that everyone sees through a glass darkly.
Shalom...
DeleteIs any passage in scripture irrelevant? Scripture says NOOO; every passage is a thread which is part of a divine tapestry. In 'seemingly' diminishing the verse 'seeing through a glass darkly' the threat here is in not 'seeing' the delicate thread which is part of the whole garment so to speak.
The L-rd intended that we understand what it means to 'see through a glass darkly' and what it means for us to await the 'unity' of G-ds 'rightly divided knowledge' His Word speaks of. No small order there!
But you asked - what is my point.
Here is my point below for all of us...
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of PROPHECY, and UNDERSTAND ALL MYSTERIES, and ALL KNOWLEDGE; and though I HAVE ALL FAITH, so that I could remove mountains, AND HAVE NOT CHARITY I AM NOTHING.
That's a pretty heavy duty passage in which the theme (love as defined by G-d)is the core of everything.
If the core is hollow, though seemingly filled with the things of G-d and or Messiah - hollow is still void of what G-d defines as the greatest virtue of character -spirit - heart and soul which we need possess. This of course is His love.
SHALOM..
ReplyDeleteAs taken in part from 1 CORINTHIANS 13
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
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Unity of FAITH and KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD..Ephesians 4:13
ReplyDelete'Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ':
What's your point?
Delete