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I would really like to know what UMJC/FFOZ (etc) thinks about the New Covenant and if they see it as a national covenant. Because if it is a national covenant and it includes even the gentiles then it seems to follow quite naturally that the gentiles who believe in Yeshua have joined the nation of Israel.
I wonder if anyone knows how the bilateralists classify the New Covenant? Do they think it is national? Apparently they do not see it this way...
From my encounters, they do not regard Gentiles as actual or true covenant members, they look at gentiles as not being party to the covenant, but as a friendly branch supporting those who are party, sort of like a cousin, not brothers or fellow heirs, but close cousins. This is why they do not believe Gentiles are responsible to the covenant. If you are not part of the covenant then you are not responsible. Thus they redefine the bible to fit their new paradigm. They try to define gentiles outside of covenant, while maintaining a few of the promises that exist only in covenant. The contradictions of course run wild.
"When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Messiah, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Messiah Yeshua through the Besorah."
Paul says a mystery of Messiah has been revealed in his generation by the Ruach Hakodesh through shlihim and neviim. That would imply it was beyond what was clear from written prophecies of the Tanakh, including Jeremiah 31. He says in Romans 15:8-9:
"For I tell you that Messiah became a servant to the circumcised to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy."
and he adds in verse 10:
"Rejoice O Nations, with his people."
It seem the New Covenant of Jeremiah is established for Israel by Messiah, and the mystery of Messiah now revealed is that the Nations can participate directly in this Covenant alongside Israel with no discrimination before Hashem.
You say the gentiles will be "alongside" Israel which is code for "excluded from Israel." The idea that the gentiles could be simultaneously members of a national covenant (i.e. New Covenant) and also excluded from being citizens in the nation of Israel--this is a contradiction.
You say the gentiles will be "alongside" Israel which is code for "excluded from Israel." The idea that the gentiles could be simultaneously members of a national covenant (i.e. New Covenant) and also excluded from being citizens in the nation of Israel--this is a contradiction.
Exactly, for BE type theologies to work, they would need to prove that gentiles are not party to the New Covenant.
It is funny how One Law theology is based on Covenant relationship, and yet those who oppose One Law, always fail to deal with Covenant relationship. Prove that gentiles are not in covenant with God and send all of us home, lol. :P
Those who believe of Israel "are my Mother, Sister and Brother" who are Israel and Judah and the cutting of this covenant is eternal life to those who find it.
The bride of the son: She is "grafted in" and called New Jerusalem, born again from above.
G-d is the Father of Messiah, Israel is the mother of Messiah (woman), Jerusalem is the bride of Messiah adopted into the family and given the name of G-d she became Mystery, Babylon and the antichrist rules there in fornication. She will be purified by fire and washed with fullers soap. She is being redeemed by blood, the law written in her heart and inward parts will one day pour forth the Torah and she will someday be a praise and glory to her husband, the proverbs 31 woman.
Jerem.31:35-37 is your answer.
ReplyDeleteSo you agree that it is national?
DeleteI would really like to know what UMJC/FFOZ (etc) thinks about the New Covenant and if they see it as a national covenant. Because if it is a national covenant and it includes even the gentiles then it seems to follow quite naturally that the gentiles who believe in Yeshua have joined the nation of Israel.
Deleteb"h
ReplyDeleteAlso it is interesting that it's a ברית חדשה
-- not a ברית מחודשת. The parties to this brit are the same as to the brit of Sinai, Hashem and Israel.
Agreed
DeleteYes, of course it is a national covenant, as it is only made with Israel.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if anyone knows how the bilateralists classify the New Covenant? Do they think it is national? Apparently they do not see it this way...
DeleteI wonder if anyone knows how the bilateralists classify the New Covenant? Do they think it is national? Apparently they do not see it this way...
DeleteFrom my encounters, they do not regard Gentiles as actual or true covenant members, they look at gentiles as not being party to the covenant, but as a friendly branch supporting those who are party, sort of like a cousin, not brothers or fellow heirs, but close cousins. This is why they do not believe Gentiles are responsible to the covenant. If you are not part of the covenant then you are not responsible. Thus they redefine the bible to fit their new paradigm. They try to define gentiles outside of covenant, while maintaining a few of the promises that exist only in covenant. The contradictions of course run wild.
"So you agree that it is national?"
ReplyDeleteOf course I do. Read verse 36 which defines of who the nation is comprised of: "The offspring of Jacob."
Yes, but it is the New Covenant also open to gentiles via Yeshua?
Deleteb"h
ReplyDeleteBut Ephesians 3:4-6 ought not be ignored:
"When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Messiah, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Messiah Yeshua through the Besorah."
Paul says a mystery of Messiah has been revealed in his generation by the Ruach Hakodesh through shlihim and neviim. That would imply it was beyond what was clear from written prophecies of the Tanakh, including Jeremiah 31. He says in Romans 15:8-9:
"For I tell you that Messiah became a servant to the circumcised to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy."
and he adds in verse 10:
"Rejoice O Nations, with his people."
It seem the New Covenant of Jeremiah is established for Israel by Messiah, and the mystery of Messiah now revealed is that the Nations can participate directly in this Covenant alongside Israel with no discrimination before Hashem.
DeleteYou say the gentiles will be "alongside" Israel which is code for "excluded from Israel." The idea that the gentiles could be simultaneously members of a national covenant (i.e. New Covenant) and also excluded from being citizens in the nation of Israel--this is a contradiction.
You say the gentiles will be "alongside" Israel which is code for "excluded from Israel." The idea that the gentiles could be simultaneously members of a national covenant (i.e. New Covenant) and also excluded from being citizens in the nation of Israel--this is a contradiction.
DeleteExactly, for BE type theologies to work, they would need to prove that gentiles are not party to the New Covenant.
It is funny how One Law theology is based on Covenant relationship, and yet those who oppose One Law, always fail to deal with Covenant relationship. Prove that gentiles are not in covenant with God and send all of us home, lol. :P
"Yes, but it is the New Covenant also open to gentiles via Yeshua?"
ReplyDeleteOf course, we call it "grafted in."
Those who believe of Israel "are my Mother, Sister and Brother" who are Israel and Judah and the cutting of this covenant is eternal life to those who find it.
ReplyDeleteThe bride of the son: She is "grafted in" and called New Jerusalem, born again from above.
G-d is the Father of Messiah, Israel is the mother of Messiah (woman), Jerusalem is the bride of Messiah adopted into the family and given the name of G-d she became Mystery, Babylon and the antichrist rules there in fornication. She will be purified by fire and washed with fullers soap. She is being redeemed by blood, the law written in her heart and inward parts will one day pour forth the Torah and she will someday be a praise and glory to her husband, the proverbs 31 woman.
Oh, I forgot to say that Jerusalem is gentile. Happy Shabbos!
Delete