To see the video, click on this LINK and scroll toward the end.
Now, at the outset, let me just say I have a very healthy
amount of skepticism. That said, I found
several things interesting about this video:
- (1) Orthodox Jews in the audience appear to be taking the account very seriously;
- (2) The vision occurred when the boy was clinically dead for 15 minutes;
- (3) The boy is apparently not from a religious family and is unfamiliar with Prophecy;
- (4) Nevertheless certain events in the vision correspond remarkably well with the Prophets (e.g. the splitting of the Mount of Olives, the way the Messiah judges holiness without using the senses of sight or hearing, the death of Gog and his burial in the Land of Israel, etc);
- (5) What he says about the sinless Messiah is fascinating: “The Mashiach (messiah) is first of all someone who can’t sin. Someone who repented. Who didn’t commit any transgressions. It can’t be that the Mashiach is someone who committed transgressions. Now it can be someone who we actually know very well. Lots and lots of people know him, according to what I understood. But everyone will be very, very surprised that he is of all people the Mashiach.”
Let me know what you think.
Shalom,
Peter
"Someone who repented."
ReplyDeleteOh... There goes Jesus' candidacy. I guess the real Jewish messiah will be only a man after all.
Gene,
DeleteIn Hebrew (as you know), the word for repentance is teshuvah which means return. Hence, even a perfect being like G-d can "return" in the relational sense:
"Veshav Adonay Eloheycha et-shvutcha verichamecha veshav vekibetscha mikol-ha'amim asher hefitscha Adonay Eloheycha shamah," Deuteronomy 30:3
"It is not said, 'Will bring you back' but 'will come back'," Deut. Rab. 7:10
The boy's statement may sound strange--the idea of a sinless being "returning" but we see in Deuternomy 30:3 that it is possible for a perfect, sinless being to return ("veshav Adonay").
Peter, in the context of what you posted (not that we are discussing something serious here, yet another of dime-a-dozen "I cam back from the other side" accounts), it clearly refers to repentance from previous sins, that is no longer sinning (rather never to have sinned at all), "someone who repented".
DeleteAlso, in that video the boy says that the redemption and the revealing of Messiah will occur in the coming MONTHS (in the video he said the countdown started in September), not years. (So, we'll soon be able to tell if this is another dreamed up nonsense). Interestingly, he said that one will be "saved" by studying Torah and doing mitzvot - nothing about believing in someone. Oh, and the big that Obama is Gog is priceless.
Gene,
DeleteReally the only thing I found interesting was that none of the Orthodox Jews who were gathered around listening attentively--none of them jumped in to correct the boy when he said:
"It can’t be that the Mashiach is someone who committed transgressions. Now it can be someone who we actually know very well. Lots and lots of people know him, according to what I understood. But everyone will be very, very surprised that he is of all people the Mashiach.”
They're videotaping this account and sending it out to everybody. The Rabbi had the Scriptures right there in his hands available. But did he offer refutations? No, instead he cites supporting passages again and again.
The account doesn't interest nearly as much as the way the Orthodox Jews treated the account.
Peter, there were people laughing and smiling in the background - it's obvious that many there were not taking him seriously. Most were probably simply curious, not there to argue with him. He himself was all smiles, giddy from all the attention his 15-year-old self was getting. Also, in some of their more insular circles some of the Orthodox Jews are very naive and superstitious. I know because I am on WhatsUp in my community and the chain-letter type stuff some folks spread as "truth" is sometimes insane (but thankfully, they do get quickly shut down by other, more rational OJs, who point out their gullibility).
DeleteGene,
DeleteI'm curious--do you believe that the Messiah will be perfectly sinless?
"I'm curious--do you believe that the Messiah will be perfectly sinless?"
DeleteNo, I do not. He will still sometimes sin, as do all men, since he will be only a man. The sages say that Messiah will be ALMOST as great as Moses. We know full well that Moses wasn't perfect and sometimes he sinned and was even punished by G-d for that. There's, however, a huge difference between a wanton wicked "sinner" and a righteous person who sometimes falls short and quickly repents.
Ezekiel Prince also brought atonement for his sin...
DeleteYou cannot say that Gene, it's is written and prophecise that the Messiah will be a human! That "discrepancy" is only a type and Shadow. You see.... "The Mashiach (messiah) is first of all someone who can’t sin." was when he first came. Then the second part of the prophecy will be when he comes back... "Someone who repented." It often happens that evens are separate by thousand of years. That's why you don't recognize the messiah.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, may be it is Jesus. Perhaps he did repent... for creating Christianity. You know, the way G-d repented before the Flood for creating humanity. We all have something to repent for, even those of us who are gods.
ReplyDeleteYes, or maybe he repent of his bad temper and calling people names like Hypocrite, brood of vipers and dogs!
ReplyDeleteRemi,
DeleteSo you believe a Prophet is not allowed to get angry? What about this story:
"He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys. From there he went on to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria," 2 Kings 2:24
But he was not a mere prophet, but a kinder gentler version of god, Peter - one who said "love your enemies and do good for those who persecute you". He didn't display much love for his enemies, that's for sure, but resorted to name calling and vilification of his enemies at every turn. His vilification of Jews who refused to believe his preposterous claims that went against Torah, calling them "children of Satan", eventually resulted in millions of Jews dead.
DeleteGene,
DeleteRE: "He didn't display much love for his enemies..."
Other than suffering and dying for them you mean?
He was killed by Romans for being a messianic claimant and thus threat to Rome's total control of Judea. You know, like all the other messianic claimants at the time. The sad story dreamed up after the fact about his "suffering and dying" for others is just that.
DeleteGene,
DeleteIf the story of a suffering and dying Messiah was invented after Yeshua, then how do you explain Isaiah 53?
Peter to whom as the arm of the L-rd being revealed? Please answer and see if it fits your theory...
DeleteGene, I think you are probably more right than you can even recognize. Watch this: "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" (Matthew 7:21-23) That sounds like the vast majority of "Christians". He may be repenting that His message got so twisted as for people who came after Him to think they were His disciples while killing billions of people through the Crusades, Colonialism, and Antisemitism. He may be repenting of all the violence and neglect of the poor and of the pain that people who claimed to follow Him caused the Jewish people. My 2 cents.
ReplyDeleteTrev,
DeleteRE: "He may be repenting that His message got so twisted"
How can you repent for someone else's wicked action? Would you then suggest that G-d should repent because Jeroboam built pagan shrines on high places?
"How can you repent for someone else's wicked action?"
DeleteIf someone (Jesus) can be punished for another person's sins, why not repent for someone's actions as well? Seems consistent.
Gene,
DeleteUsing the same logic, you could say "If a man can walk by using his feet then why not fly by flapping his arms?"
The reality is that Torah says that someone can be punished for another person's sins:
"But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all," Isaiah 53:5-6
"But he was pierced for our transgressions;
Deletehe was crushed for our iniquities"
A better translation is not "FOR our", but "BECAUSE of our". Meaning, BECAUSE of the wickedness of nations', their awful treatment of the Jewish people through the ages, that Jews suffered.
I have a great post on my site explaining the truth behind Isaiah 53 and the true translation:
http://dailyminyan.com/2014/08/05/article-isaiah-53-the-suffering-servant/
Gene,
DeleteActually, I thought the Rabbis understood Isaiah 53 pretty well:
http://orthodoxmessianic.blogspot.com/2015/11/did-messiah-have-to-die-for-sins-of.html
Peter, you are mistaking a few vague midrashic and allegorical sayings in Talmud and Zohar regarding a selected passage that mentions no messiah (but is found within the book that does consistently identify Servant as the people of Israel) with mainstream views of Judaism. There were thousands of rabbis even in Talmud and tens of thousands of opinions. Some of those opinions are outlandish and even heretical, and were vetted and rejected even within Talmud itself. And of course, all them would be offended even at your suggestion that they 'subconsciously' supported Jesus or Jesus-like man-god figure.
DeleteFYI-- the boy Natan in the video also says the Messiah is a kiruv (Jewish outreach) Rabbi who is a ba`al teshuva (he formerly didn't follow the Torah and does now after repenting).
ReplyDeleteHe couldn't possibly be talking about Jesus...
Peter using Isaiah 53 to prove someone is dying for your sin is taking the scripture out of context:
ReplyDelete"Taking scripture out of context is the number one cause of false doctrine. This mistake, while easy to correct, is so common that there is a term for it, one verse theology."
http://www.the-gospel.org/stdy_hrmntcs/bible_study.php#_7760
Please find another verse that prove your theory from the Tanakh!