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Saturday, September 22, 2012
How One Law is Justified and How One Law is NOT Justified
Some One Law Messianics are using faulty epistemological justifications for their position. When these well-meaning people use faulty justifications, the main-line Messianic leaders come along and refute these justifications and go away thinking that the One Law position lacks merit. So let's talk about the epistemology of One Law, how it is justified and how it is not justified. That way we'll be more effective in demonstrating the merits of the One Law position.
First, let's define One Law. One Law means that all members of the New Covenant are obligated to follow all APPLICABLE mitzvot (i.e. Torah) as they apply under the NEW COVENANT (i.e. New Covenant halacha) regardless of whether the individual is ritually circumcised. This doesn't mean that gentiles become Jews but rather that gentile become members of Israel (i.e. they become Israelites along with all of the other Israelites). I've discussed previously how to categorize the different rationales for One Law (see here).
Immediately you should notice that we're not talking about universal rights but rather rights that are specific to a particular political institution. This should tell you that it is unhelpful and improper to speak of specific rights in general terms. For the universal does not necessarily apply to the specific. In fact, what we're doing is speaking contextually: rights/duties within the context of the political institution of Israel.
Here's an illustration:
An Irishman cannot make himself a United States citizen by appealing to universal human rights. Rather, he would have to contextualize his argument, refer to the context of American immigration law and make the case that he satisfied the requirement of that specific legal system.
In the same way, some One Law proponents try to justify their proposition by saying something like the following, "The Torah is good in so many ways. G-d wants us to follow that which is good. Therefore, I'm obligated to follow the Torah." This type of justification is improper, citing a priori premises (knowable through mere reason) in order to infer an a posteriori conclusion (knowable only through revelation). In other words, if the premises of an argument are de-contextualized and are used to infer a contextualized conclusion, the argument is a non-sequitur. Consider, the proper method is to use contextualized premises (e.g. that provisions of immigration law have been fulfilled) in order to infer a contextualized conclusion (e.g. that one is therefore a United States citizen).
And now a few words about the specific context of covenantal law:
The context of One Law is covenant. But which covenant? In reality, the covenants are interrelated. Torah refers to the covenantal tradition (masoret habrit). We see this concept even in Paul's writings:
"remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the COVENANTS [plural] of the promise" (Eph 2:12)
In other words, according to the legal theory of Judaism, to belong to one covenant meant to belong to them all. For example, an Israelite belongs to the covenant created through Passover and completed at Sinai (i.e. the Israeli Covenant). Yet to belong this Israeli Covenant means to belong to the Abrahamic covenant as well.
In the same way, to belong to the New Covenant does not negate one's responsibilities to follow the Mosaic Torah (i.e. all of the mitzvot given under the Old Covenant). We see this, for example, in the concern of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 21 that Paul show himself to be a humble proponent of Mosaic Torah and the traditions of the fathers. We also see in this passage that the Messianic Jews there in Jerusalem, many thousands of them, were ALL zealous for the law. They all held the covenants to be interrelated--one of these interrelations or continuities being the mitzvot of the Old Covenant.
Yet there are discontinuities between the covenants:
(1) CHANGES IN WRITTEN TORAH: narrow changes in the covenant give rise to narrow changes in the Written Torah. For example, the Written Torah prescribed that only a Cohen could serve as the High Priest. However, Yeshua became High Priest after an entirely different order, that of Melchizedek. Thus, a change in covenant had a corresponding change in the Written Torah. Another example is that only circumcised men could partake in the Passover sacrifice. However, when Yeshua became the Passover Lamb, He made it possible that even uncircumcised men could partake in the Passover sacrifice. Thus, again, a change in covenant had a corresponding change in the Written Torah. And, in this case, an entirely different restriction was abolished.
(2) CHANGES IN ORAL TRADITION: the application of the mitzvot (halacha) has changed as circumstances have changed. A major halachic development under the new covenant was the granting of political rights to uncircumcised gentiles (Eph 2).
A major epistemological hurdle to One Law is responding to provisions of the Written Torah which limit full political rights to covenantal members--those who have been ritually circumcised. After all, how can one propose that the uncircumcised gentiles have full political rights when Torah plainly limits full political rights to those who have been ritually circumcised?
I propose that the only way to respond to such provisions in Written Torah is to demonstrate that a covenantal change has occurred which relates directly to the restriction. This is the only way to change the Written Torah. As I've noted, there has indeed been a covenantal change directly related to Passover. The New Testament says that Yeshua became our Passover Lamb. Further, we see that this Passover was offered even to the uncircumcised (1 Cor. 5; 1 Cor. 11). Since Passover was the institution that created Israel and, hence, citizenship in Israel, we can see why Paul was able to say that even uncircumcised men could now be considered fellow citizens in Israel (Eph 2)--they received citizenship through the Passover Lamb Yeshua! Further, Yeshua's Passover inaugurated the New Covenant (1 Cor. 11). As previously noted, the mitzvot are presumed to continue in each iteration of the covenant. The fact that the prophets connect both categories of Torah (chukim and mishpatim) with the New Covenant serves to further corroborate this premise (Eze. 36).
Naturally, there are other justifications for the One Law position. But I have demonstrated that this particular justification is perhaps the only justification to take the full context of covenantal law into account. Thus, I believe it to be the best justification of all the possible justifications. Nevertheless, see the link above to review other categories of justification for the One Law position.
Hi Peter,
ReplyDeleteThanks for this. I am learning and thinking as we go.
You may be going a bit fast here for me. Please take some smaller steps for me on some topics.
a change in covenant had a corresponding change in the Written Torah
What Scripture supports the statement that the written Torah has already been changed? Who specifically changed the Law?
How do we balance this with the following scripture?
Matthew 5:17–18
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Yeshua's Passover inaugurated the New Covenant
If the New Covenant has been completely inaugurated (Jer 31:31-37), why do all people not already know Him?
Jeremiah 31:34
“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Last question: what part of the Passover law has been changed? Only the part that states which men may participate?
Looking forward to you help.
Regards,
Schalk,
Delete[this has to be two parts because it won't let me fit it all in a single comment]
Thank you for your comment. I'll try to answer each of your questions. Just let me know if you want more detail on any particular point.
Re: "What Scripture supports the statement that the written Torah has already been changed? Who specifically changed the Law? How do we balance this with [Matthew 5:17-18]?"
First, here's the passage to which I referred:
"11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God," (Heb. 7:11-19).
Notice the principle in verse 12. He mentions how the change in the priesthood brings about a change in the law. However, he doesn't say that this applies without precedent. He cites to Scripture to show that the change was authorized by the highest authority. Thus, if there is a principe here that it's possible for the Written Torah to change then we must be clear that the change must've been specifically authorized by Scripture.
Another example of someone using Paul's principle for ascertaining changes in the Written Torah is that of James in the Jerusalem Council. In that situation, the inclusion of the gentiles into the covenant was seemingly unprecedented. Peter apparently did not cite to Scripture when presenting his argument before the council. Notice that he merely stated what he had seen, that G-d had purified the hearts of the gentiles by grace through faith. It was only James who cited to Scripture. He cites to a passage which doesn't exist literally in Scripture, not even in the Septuagint. It is a conflated quote, drawing upon many different prophecies, each of which could be interpreted as applying to the uncircumcised gentiles. However, the primary passage to which he referred was Amos 9 and, in particular, the phrase "all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called." This was the idea that of covenant--being called by someone's name. A good example of this idea is when a woman gets married and takes on the name of the husband. So James had managed to find a Scriptural precedent for the otherwise innovative idea that an uncircumcised man could be a member of the covenant.
DeleteNote that the innovation described in Acts 15 was based on the New Covenant and not in the Noahide covenant as some suppose. There is no reference to Noah at all in Acts 15, only Moses. Plus, the point of Peter's argument that grace had not been given to the gentiles until the case of Cornelius, which tells us that the change was recent. Furthermore, they all believed that Yeshua was the ONLY source of grace. Thus, the point of the council was that the gentiles were saved through the New Covenant via Yeshua and that the Messianic Jews were saved in the same way as the gentiles.
Now, in regard to this you ask a good question:
"If the New Covenant has been completely inaugurated (Jer 31:31-37), why do all people not already know Him?"
1 Cor. 11:25 says "In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
Thus, we see that the inauguration of the New Covenant resembles two different things that can only be understood in a Jewish context. One, the Jewish marriage was a two-step process: erusin and nisuin. The erusin is the betrothal ceremony which involves drinking a cup of wine. Two, the Old Covenant was a two-stage process and also like the Jewish marriage custom. First, the Passover was like the wine symbolizing the blood. Second, the receiving of the Torah at Sinai was like the wife's receiving of the ketubah.
So we see that the New Covenant Passover was just the first stage in a two stage process. There will apparently be a greater Shavuot in the future in which the Torah is truly written on our hearts, etc. This would be in keeping with the ancient Jewish marriage custom which is reflected in the Israeli Covenant.
Hi Peter,
DeleteThanks for your reply. Will read it in detail and come back if I have more points.
One request:
Can you be more specific in what about Pesach has changed? Do we still keep the feats and participate in a seder, but now without the sacrifice?
One more point on the changes of the Written Law. If Y'Shua's death and resurrection changed the Law for Pesach and the written of Hebrews explains the change of the Law for the High Priest, then how is Yom Kippurim affected?
Hebrews 8:1
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
1 John 2:1–3
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Y’Shua the Messiah the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
If we have no earthly high priest, then Yom Kippurim has to change, this is also the argument of the author of Hebrews. If Y'Shua is now our advocate that atones everyday for all in the heavenlies, why do we still need to keep a single day of atonement?
If the death and resurrection of Messiah changed Pesach, it must also have impacted You Kippurim. How does this impact the halacha of the day? Is it still a fast or is it now a feast of celebration for the atonement we have already received?
Sorry to throw another one at you!
Looking forward to your response.
Schalk,
Delete[this may not fit into one post]
I'm going to be citing a lot of verses--I don't see any way around it. But let me just give an overview of my points:
(1) Yeshua is the High Priest in a heavenly Temple, not the earthly Temple. Therefore a need remains for the earthly priesthood based on Levi'im and Kohanim;
(2) Passover will be celebrated in the eschaton;
(3) The Written Torah changes regarding the descent and distribution scheme for land inheritance (compare Numbers 27 and Ezekiel 47);
(4) All ezrachim (citizens) belong to Adat Yisrael (congregation of Israel) and all Adat Yisrael is commanded to observe Passover (Exodus 12:47. In eschaton, the gentiles are deemed full citizens (Ezekiel 47). Thus, the gentiles in eschaton are required to observe Passover in the same way as the ezrach (native born citizen);
(5) The "prince" in eschaton must offer sacrifices "for himself and the other Israelites" and in order to "purify the sanctuary."
Law of inheritance that says land may only be transferred according to this descent and distribution scheme:
DeleteNum. 27:6-11
6 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 7 “The daughters of Zelophehad are right in their statements. You shall surely give them a hereditary possession among their father’s brothers, and you shall transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 8 Further, you shall speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘If a man dies and has no son, then you shall transfer his inheritance to his daughter. 9 If he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 If he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father’s brothers. 11 If his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his nearest relative in his own family, and he shall possess it; and it shall be a statutory ordinance to the sons of Israel, just as the Lord commanded Moses.’”
Future law of inheritance CHANGES the distribution scheme to include gentiles:
Ezek. 47:21-23 "21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord."
Since the gentiles are ezrachim (citizens) they are deemed as members of Adat Yisrael, the congregation of Israel, which means they are commanded to observe Passover:
DeleteExodus 12:47
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
In the eschaton, a "prince" will have to offer sacrifices (including Passover) for "for himself and for all the people of the land", for providing atonement, and for "[purifying] the sanctuary":
Ezek 45:17-22
17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites. 18 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: In the first month on the first day you are to take a young bull without defect and purify the sanctuary. 19 The priest is to take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, on the four corners of the upper ledge of the altar and on the gateposts of the inner court. 20 You are to do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who sins unintentionally or through ignorance; so you are to make atonement for the temple. 21 “‘In the first month on the fourteenth day you are to observe the Passover, a festival lasting seven days, during which you shall eat bread made without yeast. 22 On that day the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land.
Yeshua is a High Priest only in the heavenly Temple:
DeleteHebrews 8:1-5
Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.3 Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven.
Peter, you went from trying to show that Torah was changed on account of priesthood (which as I noted didn't change in that regard, since Yeshua's service in the Heavenly Temple and not the earthly one that the Torah speaks of), to focusing on "One Law" agenda and what you believe is Christian (Gentiles) equal inheritance of the Land of Israel.
DeleteOf course, the fact that some Gentile (possibly converts to Judaism) will settle in Israel during the time of the Messiah (and there have ALWAYS been Gentiles in the Land of Israel, even in the "Old Testament" times) doesn't cancel out the fact the majority of Gentiles will not inherit any Jewish land but will happily reside in their own lands.
Gene,
DeleteRe: "Gentiles will not inherit any Jewish land but will happily reside in their own lands."
Thank you for being honest about your position. Everyone can see that this statement directly conflicts with the following Scripture:
Ezek. 47:21-23 "21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord."
Peter, nice selective quoting of what I said (leaving out the "majority") - that's dishonest, but hopefully the readers can read my words in context. The inheritance is for those foreigners already "residing among you and who have children", not just for anybody just thinks that the Land of Israel belongs to them.
DeleteThis is from the New Testament, in case everyone assumes that G-d have given the inheritance of the Land of Isreal to everyone on earth:
Delete"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live." (Acts 17:26)
From Deuteronomy 32:8 "When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel."
So, the nations each have their inheritance and will live within the boundaries as determined by G-d. The boundaries of each of the nations were from the very beginning set up in order to insure that Israel, even though it appeared as a people much later than other nations, was to receive her inheritance.
Gene,
DeleteYou are very quick to make a moral charge against me, that I'm being "dishonest" in the way I quote you. You should know that I had no such ill-intent in our conversation. On the contrary, I've enjoyed our discussion immensely. Now back to the discussion:
Re: "The inheritance is for those foreigners already "residing among you and who have children", not just for anybody just thinks that the Land of Israel belongs to them."
So you admit that they are "foreigners" who have acquired land rights in Israel? Good. Now explain how this isn't a complete reversal of the Written Torah's land inheritance scheme. Show me in this passage where it speaks of GENTILES owning land in Israel:
Num. 27:6-11
6 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 7 “The daughters of Zelophehad are right in their statements. You shall surely give them a hereditary possession among their father’s brothers, and you shall transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 8 Further, you shall speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘If a man dies and has no son, then you shall transfer his inheritance to his daughter. 9 If he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 If he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father’s brothers. 11 If his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his nearest relative in his own family, and he shall possess it; and it shall be a statutory ordinance to the sons of Israel, just as the Lord commanded Moses.’”
Please explain to us all how this provision was inclusive of non-heriditary gentiles. And if you find a way to do this then I will have to hand it to you for having the chutzpah to contradict every Jewish historian that I've ever read.
"Please explain to us all how this provision was inclusive of non-heriditary gentiles."
DeletePeter, first of all, there's nothing in there that that says that no foreigner can be given any sort of inheritance in the Land. I also believe that many foreigners who joined "the congregation of Israel" (as converts) were given some sort of inheritance for themselves and especially their children.
Schalk... you raised a very good question. Peter gave it a good try answering, but I want to present you with what I believe a more correct understanding of Hebrews, the change of priesthood and especially explore if there was, as Peter claims an actual change in Torah - which I don't believe is the case.
ReplyDeleteHebrews Chapter 7 deald specifically with a new (or rather much better explained) type of priesthood – that of Melchizedek. “Melchizedek” from Hebrew to English (roughly) translates as ”king of righteousness.” The chapter identifies Yeshua (Jesus) as that kind of priest, that is one of a completely different origin than the Levitical priests. This different type of priesthood is the key to understanding the Book of Hebrews, that is the relationship of the Law (Torah) to the sacrifice and the role performed by the Messiah the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
As the Book of Hebrews states, the Levitical priesthood was ordained through Torah but the sacrifices performed by this priesthood alone were not sufficient to rid the world of sin or to redeem it. Not being sufficient, it had to be set aside, that is be lowered in importance (but not be rid off!) for something greater. This is precisely why Judaism looks forward to Messiah the Redeemer. If the Levitical priesthood alone was enough for Israel, there would not have been any need for the Messiah to come. But there certainly is such a need – ask any pious Jew. Observant Jews look forward to being redeemed by the Messiah and pray to G-d about it every single day.
Melchizedek’s (i.e. Yeshua’s) origin as the High Priest of G-d precedes Aaron’s own lineage, making it more important than Aaron’s. Melchizedek already made an appearance in the Bible (Genesis 14), but his exact role was not defined. One must also keep in mind that the service of individual Levitical priests was always temporary by nature – they all died and had to be replaced, over and over. This being the case, their priesthood is inferior to Yeshua’a priesthood, since as Messiah he reigns and is in G-d’s presence forevermore, instead of only occasionally, as the Torah stipulated for the Levitical high priests. Melchizedek’s priesthood, being permanent is far superior to that of the Levitical one.
An Israeli Messianic theologian Tsvi Sadan once told me: “Ezekiel seems to be pretty clear about sin offering in the third temple. If you understand that Jesus is a priest of different order, then him as sacrifice and temple sacrifice can co-exit, which in fact was the case for 40 years, between Jesus’ death and the destruction of the temple.”
We can be assured that G-d is done neither with the Torah nor with the services of Levites and Priests, as G-d Himself relayed to us through his prophet Jeremiah:
"…and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever." (Jeremiah 33:18)
Which brings me to this point - the Torah has not changed, Levites will perform in the future Temple the service they always had, Melchizedek was there all along (and in fact he was the Lamb sacrificed from before creation of the World), waiting for the Redemption of the world.
Gene,
DeleteWith which of the following points do you disagree?
(1) Yeshua is the High Priest in a heavenly Temple, not the earthly Temple. Therefore a need remains for the earthly priesthood based on Levi'im and Kohanim;
(2) Passover will be celebrated in the eschaton;
(3) The Written Torah changes regarding the descent and distribution scheme for land inheritance (compare Numbers 27 and Ezekiel 47);
(4) All ezrachim (citizens) belong to Adat Yisrael (congregation of Israel) and all Adat Yisrael is commanded to observe Passover (Exodus 12:47. In eschaton, the gentiles are deemed full citizens (Ezekiel 47). Thus, the gentiles in eschaton are required to observe Passover in the same way as the ezrach (native born citizen);
(5) The "prince" in eschaton must offer sacrifices "for himself and the other Israelites" and in order to "purify the sanctuary."
I agree with 1 and 2, and not sure about what you meant by 5.
Delete--Your disagreement with point 3 comes as no surprise. However, anyone who looks at Ezekiel 47 can see that you are manifestly incorrect. Any reasonable person who looks at Ezekiel 47 can plainly see a descent and distribution scheme for land inheritance that is inclusive of gentiles. And, further, they can plainly see that this new land inheritance scheme is an innovation compared to the Old Covenant land inheritance scheme (Numbers 27).
Delete--Your disagreement with point 4 is baffling. And it is very telling that you have no response for it other than "I disagree."
--Point 5 comes directly from Scripture. Observe:
Ezek 45:17-22
17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites. 18 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: In the first month on the first day you are to take a young bull without defect and purify the sanctuary. 19 The priest is to take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, on the four corners of the upper ledge of the altar and on the gateposts of the inner court. 20 You are to do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who sins unintentionally or through ignorance; so you are to make atonement for the temple. 21 “‘In the first month on the fourteenth day you are to observe the Passover, a festival lasting seven days, during which you shall eat bread made without yeast. 22 On that day the prince is to provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land.
Peter, my answer in the comment above, repeated here:
DeleteThis is from the New Testament, in case everyone assumes that G-d have given the inheritance of the Land of Isreal to everyone on earth:
"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live." (Acts 17:26)
From Deuteronomy 32:8 "When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel."
So, the nations each have their inheritance and will live within the boundaries as determined by G-d. The boundaries of each of the nations were from the very beginning set up in order to insure that Israel, even though it appeared as a people much later than other nations, was to receive her inheritance.
#4 - Gentiles will go up to worship in Jerusalem during their annual pilgrimages, and they will travel from their respective lands year after year. (Zechariah 14:16-17)
Delete"Point 5 comes directly from Scripture"
OK
Gene,
DeleteRe: "#4 - Gentiles will go up to worship in Jerusalem during their annual pilgrimages, and they will travel from their respective lands year after year. (Zechariah 14:16-17)"
I'm well aware of that. Are you aware that not all the tribes of Israel resided in ancient Israel? It doesn't matter where an Israelite lives--he's always an Israelite.
"I'm well aware of that. Are you aware that not all the tribes of Israel resided in ancient Israel? It doesn't matter where an Israelite lives--he's always an Israelite."
DeleteJews only lived outside of the Land because they were exiled from it and not because that's something normal. However, G-d will bring EVERY single Israelite (Jew) to the Land, so that sort of takes the wind out of the point you made, Peter, doesn't it?
"Then they will know that I am the L-RD their G-d, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind." ( Ezekiel 39:28)
Gene,
DeleteThat's not true. Numbers 32:7 says "Why do you discourage the Israelites from crossing over into the land the Lord has given them?" Jordan was not Israel. It was given to the Gadites and Reubenites and the half-tribe of Manasseh only to placate them. But that didn't make it the promised Land. Canaan was the promised Land, not Jordan. And this proves my point that tribes were allowed to dwell outside Israel.
Peter, that fact that a few of the tribes were allowed to stay just east of Jordan is a technicality that doesn't add much to this particular discussion. If one wants to get into technicalities, the promised land actually extends from the river in Egypt to Euphrates (Gen. 15:18-21), so this may explain that Moses didn't have a problem with them staying in the land that G-d allowed them to conquer! We have a confirmation in Joshua:
DeleteJoshua 1:4 "Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates — all the Hittite country — to the Great Sea on the west."
Also, who said that Jews are "not allowed" to dwell outside of Israel?
However, the point that I made to you from Ezekiel 39:28 is that G-d will regather ALL Jews into the Land. First and foremost, He will gather them around Jerusalem.
Gene, I'd like to see you expand your commentary on Hebrews on your own blog. It's one of those books in the Bible that is terribly misunderstood by most Christians and not a few "Messianics" and there is very little legitimate analysis of this book in the Messianic realm.
ReplyDeleteGene said: This is precisely why Judaism looks forward to Messiah the Redeemer. If the Levitical priesthood alone was enough for Israel, there would not have been any need for the Messiah to come. But there certainly is such a need – ask any pious Jew. Observant Jews look forward to being redeemed by the Messiah and pray to G-d about it every single day.
I hope no one missed today's opportunity to pray for the Mashiach to come with Jews and Gentiles around the world. It was about an hour and a half ago (5 p.m. Jerusalem time). I wonder how many millions gathered together as one voice across the globe and cried out to God?
Sorry for the off-topic comments, Peter.
James,
DeleteRe: "Sorry for the off-topic comments, Peter."
You needn't apologize; all of your comments are always welcome. And, far be it from me to stand in the way of global prayer. : )
Peter said: "The Written Torah changes regarding the descent and distribution scheme for land inheritance."
ReplyDeleteWe need to be very careful about what may or may not change in the Bible because if we make all of Scripture too "plastic," then on what "eternal truths" can we depend?
On the other hand, I believe how halakhah is applied does change and adapt over time to meet the needs of each generation of Jews, but the core truths of the Bible must remain stable, otherwise our Scriptures are built on sand. I'll be posting in my Evolution series later today and again tomorrow (parts 2 and 3). Today will just be setting up the large, sweeping concepts that will need to be addressed, but tomorrow's "morning meditation" will try to take a look at how Jewish halakhah could continue to adapt over the past 2,000 and still be considered authoritative and legitimate.
It's an experimental exploration, but we keep dancing around this issue. Might as well at least try to meet it head on.
Do religions evolve and can those changes be considered expected, legitimate, and beneficial? We'll see.
One example of "innovation" often cited on what Torah prescribes is use of Levites to sing and play music instruments in the Temple. However, I don't think this was really an innovation that countered the Torah, but simply a worshipful way to beautify Temple services.
DeleteAnother example of supposed Torah "change" is change of location of sacrifices (outside of the Temple vs. inside of the Temple). That too is not so much an innovation that changed the Torah, but simply a "graduation" to the time when the Temple is actually built.
For example, the Written Torah prescribed that only a Cohen could serve as the High Priest. However, Yeshua became High Priest after an entirely different order, that of Melchizedek. Thus, a change in covenant had a corresponding change in the Written Torah. Another example is that only circumcised men could partake in the Passover sacrifice. However, when Yeshua became the Passover Lamb, He made it possible that even uncircumcised men could partake in the Passover sacrifice. Thus, again, a change in covenant had a corresponding change in the Written Torah. And, in this case, an entirely different restriction was abolished.
ReplyDelete1) I have not been able to read all the responses below, so you may have clarified this, but I have to disagree with you on a few points. Yeshua as high priest did not change or invalidate the office of the Levitical Priest or the sacrifices associated with them, I would recommend reading Hebrews differently, with how much greater instead of what has been replaced or changed.
2) Concerning Passover, such as Paul teaches the gentiles to participate, were not actually keeping the Passover per the Torah, as it required to be in Jerusalem. Anyone can take part in a memorial or seder, they are not actually keeping the Passover, and even if they were in Jerusalem, they can keep a part of it, they just cannoteat the sacrificed Lamb. As that is the actual command.
There definitely seems to be some changes that will take place in the Millennium, but I don't see those changes right now... but I don't see why you feel that changes need to be issued in order to justify Gentile covenant relationship. What I am reading and correct me if I am wrong, but you are committing the same error as those who argue anachronistically by applying beliefs of Judaism today, to that of the day of Moses.
The foreigner was welcomed to join Covenant not only in the Mosaic but also in the Messianic... We can clearly read about the foreigner all through the Torah, and we get confirmation from Paul with the same conclusion in Ephesians 2.
So please clarify your argument for me.
Zion, I like your two points and tend to agree with them, particularly, "reading Hebrews differently, with how much greater instead of what has been replaced or changed." This, in my opinion, was the intent of the New Covenant (Jer. 31, Ezek. 36), affirming and enhancing the previous covenants (Abrahamic, Sinai) for the Jewish people, without doing away with or replacing anything.
DeleteRe: "Yeshua as high priest did not change or invalidate the office of the Levitical Priest or the sacrifices associated with them,"
DeleteI never said that. In fact, my first point was "(1) Yeshua is the High Priest in a heavenly Temple, not the earthly Temple. Therefore a need remains for the earthly priesthood based on Levi'im and Kohanim;"
Re: "Concerning Passover, such as Paul teaches the gentiles to participate, were not actually keeping the Passover per the Torah, as it required to be in Jerusalem. Anyone can take part in a memorial or seder, they are not actually keeping the Passover, and even if they were in Jerusalem, they can keep a part of it, they just cannoteat the sacrificed Lamb. As that is the actual command."
You'll note that I said eschaton. I would never say that Paul instructed the gentiles to violate the Sanhedrinic authority. Yet, the FACT was that they WERE participating in the Passover Sacrifice (Yeshua).
Re: "but I don't see why you feel that changes need to be issued in order to justify Gentile covenant relationship. What I am reading and correct me if I am wrong, but you are committing the same error as those who argue anachronistically by applying beliefs of Judaism today, to that of the day of Moses."
Zion, gentiles are in covenant because of Yeshua and nothing else. How is that anachronistic? It's doesn't even deal with time. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
Sorry, the previous comment was directed at Zion. I forgot to address it to Zion at the beginning.
DeleteJames, since on your blog you admit you don't understand the covenants, don't you think it's a little early to form opinions?
ReplyDeleteWhy not spend some time actually reading your bible and not other men's writings? Then, at least you will have a basis for forming the opinions you like to share while professing yourself without knowledge or understanding.
Not trying to be rude, but so many admit they don't know what they are talking about stating they are looking into it....while at the same time teaching.
"without doing away with or replacing anything."
What about replacing death with eternal life?
First of all, thanks for visiting my blog, Anonymous.
DeleteHowever, communicating and expressing thoughts and feelings on a topic is one of the ways I learn. If I waited until I was 100% sure of any topic to actually talk to anyone about it, I would probably never talk to anyone. In fact, it would scare me if I thought I had all the answers and that there was no possibility that I could be wrong. We can all be wrong. Does that mean we aren't supposed to communicate?
You are also being rather presumptive about how much time I spend reading the Bible vs. whatever else you believe I am reading (or shouldn't be reading).
I've said on more than one occasion (read my "Who am I" page if you don't believe me) that I'm not a teacher, a guru, a wise man (maybe a "wise guy" sometimes), Pastor, or anything else. I'm just a guy. Don't "ordinary people" get to explore their faith, ask questions, and try to figure things out, or is that only for university scholars and theologians? Last time I looked, I still had free speech rights.
Eternal life has been with humanity since the beginning, so it doesn't have to be changed. God is a God of the living and not of the dead (see the Mount of Transfiguration for details).
"Eternal life ... doesn't have to be changed."
DeleteBut death does. The wages of sin is death, that's the Sinai Covenant. The gift of G-d is eternal life, that's the New Covenant.
They are not the same thing. The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant and not a "renewal" of the Sinai Covenant.
Write them all out, set them side by side, note the terms, learn the differences.
"The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant and not a "renewal" of the Sinai Covenant."
DeleteFirst of all, ALL the covenants G-d has made with Israel and their forefathers are built upon one another, including the Sinai Covenant. The New Covenant is the culmination of them all, where ALL the spiritual AND physical blessings promised to Israel (and to the nations, through Israel) are Yes and Amen through Messiah.
In the New Covenant we will see the continuation and renewal of the Sinai Covenant (the marriage contact between G-d and Israel) on the grand scale - Israel is regathered back to the land to the last person, all Israelites will know Torah by heart and Gentiles will seek them out to learn about G-d, the Temple is rebuilt with its glory surpassing the previous two, the Temple service with Sinai-ordained priests, Levites, sacrfices, is restored, etc.
Gene, your listing the law of Moses as proof of the renewal of the Sinai Covenant. The law of Moses and Israel are in both Covenants but they are not the same.
DeleteYeshua did not renew the "till death do us part" present in the Sinai Covenant. The Sinai Covenant was fulfilled by Yeshua. It ended in death, Yeshua tasting death for every man for all have sinned and fallen short.
Yeshua while fulfilling the Sinai covenant made a better covenant with better promises in his blood and body.
"We have been made holy by God’s will through the offering of Jesus Christ’s body once for all."
"And I won’t remember their sins
and their lawless behavior anymore."
"When there is forgiveness for these things, there is no longer an offering for sin"
Anonymous, I like the way Zion referred to the Book of Hebrews above: "reading Hebrews differently, with how much greater instead of what has been replaced or changed." When we think of the blessings of the New Covenant being "better" than the previous covenants upon which they were built, think of "how much greater instead of what has been replaced or changed."
DeleteIt helps if you look at the New Covenant from a more traditionally Jewish point of view, since the typical Christian viewpoint is laced with supersessionism, replacing Judah and Israel with the church, when there is no textual justification for doing so:
"The Jewish view of the mere wording “new covenant” is no more than a renewed national commitment to abide by God’s laws. In this view, the word new does not refer to commitment that replaces a previous one, but rather to an additional and greater level of commitment. (Jewish Encyclopedia: New Testament) Because Jews view the Mosaic covenant as applying only to Jews and any New Covenant merely a strengthening of the already existing one, Jews do not see this phrase as relevant in any way to non-Jews."
I'm finding that there are aspects of the New Covenant that do apply to non-Jews through Israel (as Gene says) and specifically through Israel's "first born son," Yeshua (Jesus). However, the principle population being addressed by all of the "Old Testament" covenants are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: the Jewish people. Only through the grace of the Messiah and the will of a merciful God have the rest of the nations been allowed into a covenant relationship with God.
"He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
ReplyDeleteBut as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
James, that does not sound like what you said
"The Jewish view of the mere wording “new covenant” is no more than a renewed national commitment to abide by God’s laws."
If you think the "new covenant" is no more than a renewed national commitment to abide by G-d's laws, you made my case you do not know the Covenants.
What is the view of "not like the one I made with your Father's at Mt Sinai"?
Anonymous, you didn't read my previous comment carefully. I built upon the Jewish view of the New Covenant, a view which we must grasp to understand its primary intent for the Jewish people, and then said that there is also an application of that covenant that applies to the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteThat the New Covenant is "better" and "not like the ones I made with your Fathers" does not delete or denigrate the covenants God previously made with the ancient Jews. It *is* better because it more greatly affirms and expands upon the physical and spiritual blessings of the Jews and indeed, writes the Torah, not just on tablets and scrolls, but upon the Jewish heart.
At the same time, this New Covenant has something for we Gentiles too, but it requires a careful examination of various scriptures in the New Testament to find it (which is why most traditional Jews will miss the connection). That's the part of my investigtion that I'm conducting now.
So far, the only thing proven between you and me "Anonymous," is that we disagree. You apparently are adhered to the traditional Christian viewpoint on covenants, Christianity, and Judaism and thus, appear to believe you have a full and total understanding about how everything operates. I'm glad that works for you. As for me, I'd rather question the assumptions, look at matters from different points of view, and engage my reason and my faith head on.
Cheers and welcome to Monday.
"You apparently are adhered to the traditional Christian viewpoint on covenants"
DeleteThat's a very apt assessment, James, of Anonymous' theological worldview.
"I built upon the Jewish view of the New Covenant, a view which we must grasp to understand its primary intent for the Jewish people, and then said that there is also an application of that covenant that applies to the rest of us."
ReplyDeleteJames, Do you think the "traditional Jewish" viewpoint includes the body and blood of Yeshua? Being born again by the will of G-d by believing in he who was sent from above and died for our sins in a substitution sacrifice leaving us justified and holy, Jew or Gentile, seeking it in faith and not in works?
If they believed Moses they would believe Yeshua. According to Yeshua they do NOT believe Moses so would NOT believe Yeshua's words. I'm glad that works for you.
It's not that I don't understand what the "traditional Jewish" theological worldview is on the new covenant. It's that I make my theology based on the things written by Moses, Yeshua and the Apostles.
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
You claim to be open minded and engaging your reason but I don't get that from your words.