Saturday, October 5, 2013

Church Update

So the past few weeks have been amazing.  I'm currently focusing on helping a local pro-Israel congregation build it's men's fellowship ministry.  My role is helping out with prayer rotations--they have a prayer room where prayer teams meet during the Wednesday men's fellowship group time-slot.  By the way, if you're thinking of building up a community of Believers where you are then don't forget that essential ingredient:  prayer.  Prayer is like a sacrifice that must be offered before you can invite G-d to join you.

Imagine what would happen if all the fellowship groups across the country starting implementing prayer-rotations...  

I was in a Colossians class at church recently and there was a dialogue between two brothers that went like this (this was a pleasant dialogue by the way):

B1:  It seems more and more like there's a darkness spreading over the country and the light is getting weaker and weaker...

B2:  I don't think the light is getting weaker... I think it's becoming more focused, like a laser.  All the people that used to look like Believers are being shown to be something else.  The true Believers are becoming more apparent.  And the final test will be support for Israel...

So true!

I want to be in that laser beam!  May G-d strengthen our movement to be worthy of His Light!


  1. I believe we are seeing the darkness separated from the light, as occurred in creation. We should not fear the coming darkness. It is our chance to shine as lights, as some that were thought of as lights are revealed to be instead, darkness, or those who appear as an angel of light. Is. 60:2 For, hinei, (behold) the choshech (darkness) shall cover Eretz (earth), and gross darkness the nations; but Hashem shall arise upon you, and His kavod (glory) shall be seen upon you.

    I have to disagree with your, "movement," characterization. The son of man has no place (no movement, no institution, no theological camp) to lay his head. If you desire to follow him, you won't either. Following men, and seeking to build a Babel and make a name for yourself so you will not be blotted out from under heaven is idolatry, and asking, "give us a king so we may be like the other nations (religious groups) is rebellion against the most high and his purposes.

    1. Yes, Isaiah compares the nations to the darkness and Israel to the light which were divided at creation...

      This is how HaShem will separate idolatry from Yirat HaShem--as He did with Egypt and Israel:

      "21 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward the sky so that darkness spreads over Egypt—darkness that can be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and total darkness covered all Egypt for three days. 23 No one could see anyone else or move about for three days. Yet all the Israelites had light in the places where they lived."

      Re: "I have to disagree with your, "movement," characterization. The son of man has no place (no movement, no institution, no theological camp) to lay his head."

      Please explain this further--I'm having trouble understanding you here. To which characterization are you referring?

      I'm guessing that you mean that I have asserted that a perfect movement exists. But if that is what you mean then you have misunderstood me. I don't believe that the broader Messianic movement is where it should be right now. The divisions are an obvious clue that we have fallen very short.

      My position---to be clear---is that the broader Messianic movement must become unified in love and truth, setting an example for all of humanity. Clearly we have a long way to go...

      However, I do believe with complete faith that He will (eventually) make His community one even as He is One.

    2. After the flood, the sons of Noach were given the command to spread out and replenish the earth. But they disobeyed, remained in Shinar, ended up with Babel, and so the Holy One had to forcible do what the people refused to do in scattering them. Yeshua said to go into all the world with the good news, making mikvah, and teaching all he had commanded. He didn't say to build institutions, create organizations, fund ornate buildings, hire professional clergy or isolate themselves in enclaves. I do believe that those who are his will experience a unity of the spirit in the bond of peace, a common desire and yearning, not necessarily human agreement. Some have said that whenever there is a supernatural outpouring, an organization arises ostensibly to support the outpouring, but in reality, it ends up existing unto itself, and protecting and promoting livelihoods, power, authority and social statuses. Instead of following the master, people seek to be like the world, desire the respect, titles, adherents and devotees like the world, albeit a bit cleaned up, at least in appearances. This is worshipping the Holy One in the manner the pagans worship their gods. I am well aware that some things are so ubiquitous and so accepted, that we do not even question them. But there is a downside to this that I have discovered. Solomon said that in wisdom is much grief, and in knowledge only pain. Is it better to be blind to the corruption in a camp so that one may be enfolded in its embrace? Dan. 12:10 (paraphrased from the Hebrew) tells us that those who ponder and consider will gain understanding, but the wicked will not understand. See, it doesn't say the stupid won't understand, but the wicked. And it seems that one who refuses to ponder or consider (because they are protecting their turf) is wicked in the eyes of heaven. Probably not something you hear too often.

  2. I totally disagree that we are not in unity. Our unity is in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not divided against itself and the Kingdom of Yeshua is not devided against itself, Yeshua is building his Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    You are not looking at it correctly, you are misrepresenting The Holy Church. Do not make the mistake of confusing what you think you see with what G-d has said concerning The Church.

    The Kingdom of G-d is growing in the earth, planted by Yeshua, growing up to a great tree as per Yeshua. Yeshua is not waiting to be crowned, he was BORN King and all authority in heaven and earth has BEEN given to him and to the adding of his Kingdom there shall be no end.

  3. Anonymous,

    While I agree that believers are one in the Spirit on the deepest, ontological level, the fact that we still have an evil inclination/flesh nature can still bring divisiveness.

    Questions of interpretation, orthodoxy and practice still remain. Witness the many discussions on this blog.

    One thing we can count on is that the time will come when the intrinsic unity we share now will be made know in its fullest expression in olam haba.


  4. It would be a mistake to misrepresent the unity of The Church due to a poor perspective.

    That type of poor perspective is such that made Yeshua weep as his friend lay in the grave. They only had the poor perspective that "one day" Lazarus would be resurrected, “I know he will be raised up in the resurrection”. What grieved Yeshua? They did not understand that HE is the resurrection and the life.

    Might it not grieve Yeshua even today when men refuse to understand we are not waiting for the world to come for our unity but have it already in Christ?

    There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    If Jesus' Kingdom is divided it can not stand. Because we know it will stand, we can know that it is not divided. If it can not be divided, it is in unity.

    1. Right now, we may not be sure who are the real sheep, who are the hirelings and who are the wolves. But we will find out soon enough.

    2. Anonymous,

      It is true that Yeshua is the resurrection and the life. Indeed, he is the "first fruits" of the resurrection.

      But we are still awaiting the final resurrection at the end of the age, the final harvest, to which Messiah's first fruits/resurrection points.

      Yes, Lazarus was brought back from the dead. But there is nothing that indicates that he was anything more than a mortal after the fact and assuredly died again. In other words, he did not have the resurrection body or "spiritual body" that Paul discussed in 1 Cor. 15.

      Let me try another example. Believers fully possess the "righteousness of Messiah" through faith. But we are also to grow in righteousness through increased submission to the Holy Spirit and obedience to Torah. A process normally called "sanctification".

      So, again, it is true that we are one in all the ways you have stated. If we are in the Spirit, we are in the Spirit. But we are awaiting the ultimate outward expression, the ultimate fulfillment or completion at his return. Until then, there is indeed division in this age, but this will be conquered completely in the age to come.

      I don't mean to be offensive in anyway, but to say there is no division or discord in the body is to deny not only the scriptures themselves but to deny reality as well. In fact, we are divided on this issue right now!



  5. Noah, you do not offend me, but I see you miss the entire point

  6. There are many nations but only one Israel. Just as their is only one Israel, there is only one Church.

    1. Anonymous,

      Do you equate Israel with the church?


    2. Anonymous,

      I don't think I have missed the point either.

      You stated in your post on Oct 6th at 10:16, in response to Peter and/or Jewish Princess...

      "You are not looking at it correctly, you are misrepresenting The Holy Church.* Do not make the mistake of confusing what you think you see* with what G-d has said concerning The Church."

      Its the "do not mistake what you think you see" part I am trying to address. It sounds like you are saying were supposed to deny what we see.

      Of course the "true church" is one, as you say. But do you really think that reality is fully expressed in this world now? If it is, why are we waiting hopefully for Messiah to return?


    3. Oh, do I equate Israel with the Church? No, Israel was already existing, but Yeshua said "I WILL build MY CHURCH!

      If Israel was The Church, then why would a foundation (Christand the Apostles) be laid for a new building.

      I equate The Church with The New Jerusalem who comes down from heaven.

      Food for thought: What is the difference between having your name "written in the earth" and "written in heaven"?

  7. Noah, I guess it is apparent I am unable to say it correctly in a way that is understandable. But, I'll keep trying.

    What I mean by "do not mistake what you think you see", perhaps an analogy.

    Imagine we are in the wilderness camping around the tabernacle. Perhaps we think we see Israel as not in unity because that other tribe is not on our side of the tabernacle and we do not agree on everything and we have to take our issues up with the selected men and those too hard for us we take to Moses who takes them to G-d.

    If we change our perspective and are able to view ourselves from above we get the true reality of our oneness. Out in the wilderness, seen from above, the camp is one camp although we can see its many parts. We see the tabernacle, we see the Levites surrounding it, we see the 12 tribes arranged as G-d has commanded. Our oneness is apparent although tension and disagreements and issues may abound. Had Israel inherited the promise land yet? No, but Israel was already in unity from the time they stood before their brother, Joseph.

    This is what I am saying. If you take the time to see The Church from G-ds perspective, you will see the truth that we are one.

    Anyway, it was nice to talk to you and I hope you are blessed and will see yourself in unity with me even when we don't see eye to eye, so to speak! :)


    1. Steven,

      Its all good....Basically I think I am trying to say the same thing you are as regarding unity...

      Good to talk to you as well.