And then Luke did what any of us would do in that situation.
Luke put Vader on the ground like so:
In Messianic Judaism (yes, I'm now going to segue from Star Wars to Messianic Judaism), we Messianics feel protective of our brethren. That's why we see so many Messianic ministries (e.g. Messianicapologetics.net and Torah Resource) whose mission is to empower their Messianic brothers and sisters.
QUESTION:
And so my question today is for the folks who have been in the Messianic movement for a while:What advice do you have for brothers and sisters in the Messianic movement? Or, to borrow the Star Wars metaphor again, what do you see as the path to the dark side? What do you see as the path to the light side?
Stay away from the Hebrew roots movement!
ReplyDeleteAnd then what?
DeleteIt will be much more easier to swim in the muddy "messiantics" waters......
DeleteAnd how do you know if your local fellowship is a Messianic fellowship vs. a Hebrew Roots fellowship?
DeleteThe warning "Stay away from X" is only helpful if you provide a clear definition of "X" and explain why it's harmful.
Delete"And how do you know if your local fellowship is a Messianic fellowship vs. a Hebrew Roots fellowship?"
DeleteWell, that is easy. HR fellowships do not have Jews. MJ at least have some...
"The warning "Stay away from X" is only helpful if you provide a clear definition of "X" and explain why it's harmful."
You mean to tell me you don't know the difference? LOL!
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DeleteDan,
DeleteRE: "HR fellowships do not have Jews. MJ at least have some..."
Why do you feel that is the case?
I don't feel anything. It its just a fact.
DeleteDan,
DeleteMy question is this: you believe that there are no Jews in HR fellowships, what do you think is the cause of the lack of Jewish presence in HR fellowships?
It is because the HR are trying to teach the father how to make children...Pathetic....
DeleteI agree with Dan, Plus, do not buy FFOZ material.
ReplyDeleteHR vs MJ: The difference might be that HR is done with the traditions of MEN. I know I am. I wonder if MJ's are mostly wanna-be Jews adopting the next set of man-made traditions that set aside the commandments of GOD. (Matt 15:3). I quickly decided I wanted to be careful about traditions, no matter how old they may be. If the tradition sets aside other commandments, It is a bad tradition. My advise to newbies-> "be careful of the traditions".
ReplyDelete1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2Th_2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Many of the MJ's I have know end up fully converting to Judaism. That means getting rid of Yeshua. Again, be careful.
more advice: Love. If you are MJ, Act/Speak in Love. If HR, Act/Speak in love.
Minnesota Mike,
DeletePart of Dan's concern is that some in the HR movement, while rejecting some harmful aspects of Christianity (e.g. the anti-Torah bias) still cling to other harmful aspects of Christianity (e.g. the anti-Semitic bias that says we should summarily reject all Jewish traditions merely because they're traditions associated with the race of the Jews). However, from what I've seen, most folks in the HR movement love Jews and love the Modern State of Israel, and, at a minimum, have a healthy respect for all the good Jewish traditions which serve to facilitate the observance of the commandments of Torah.
Thank you for sharing these passages and advice with us. I agree that folks should be cautious about which traditions to adopt. Our eyes should always be on the goal of keeping the commandments--above all to speak and act with love.
Shalom,
Peter
The path to the dark side is forgetting we all worship the same Messiah Yeshua of Nazareth, and therefore are all Abraham's seed (meaning all are part of Israel regardless of genealogy). Forgetting this leads to cursing our brethren. Cursing our brethren leads to incurring the curse of YHVH (because we have cursed Abraham). This leads to becoming tools of Satan and doing his work while thinking we are doing YHVH a favor.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, read MinnesotaMike's "more advice" and do what he says.
Good point, brother! Thank you!
DeleteI'm slow to this party, but I usually tell people to take it slow and weigh each tradition against Scripture. No sense getting out of the 'Christian' ditch only to veer across the narrow path and land in the 'Judaism' ditch. Both Kingdoms (Ez. 37:22) have cleaning up to do.
ReplyDeleteAvoid radicalizing and love... Mike makes a great point!!
@ Dan, the presence of a Jew in the fellowship makes no difference whatsoever whether those there can rightly divide the Word of Yehovah or not. Your assertion re: HR v MJ as a reason to fellowship or not is patently absurd.
Peter was asking about Messianic Judaism if I remember correctly. And it is the HR that are doing the dividing.....
DeletePete,
DeleteRE: "...but I usually tell people to take it slow and weigh each tradition against Scripture."
Agreed!
Don't amplify minor issues (calendar, divine name, tzitzit type and color, etc.) into major ones.
ReplyDeleteInstead, be known for acts of charity. Practice helping people. Show mercy. Be quick to forgive. Be characterized by faithfulness. These are the majors of Torah; focus on these.
Sounds like Christianity. and by our love of the believers the world knows we are diciples of Yeshua.
DeleteChristianity has many things right; God has used it to bring the nations to the God of Israel and to the Messiah of Israel.
DeleteIt errs in other areas, particularly on its deprecating God's commandments.
When you compare the errors of Christianity to ALL the others, the body of believers are a bright light, the others all sit in darkness. What they have, Messiah, Holy Spirit, Yeshua's words, the righteous acts of the saints, eternal life. What do the others have? Nothing, fuel for the fires of judgment.
DeleteGod did NOT use Christianity to bring the nations to the God of Israel and Messiah. He used the Truth to bring OUT of the nations AND Israel, the Body of Messiah, the Church.
Yeshua promises to write his Torah inside, to give us his Holy Spirit, that we would know him. Yes, Christianity has some things wrong, but they pale in comparison to what the others have wrong
Anonymous,
DeleteChristians have been a bright light? Like when the Christian Southern States authorized the institution of slavery? Like when the Dutch Reformed Church was the official church of the National Party in apartheid South Africa? Like when the Christian Hutus of Rwanda committed genocide against the Tutsis? Like when the Christians of Nazi Germany "sang a little louder" in church whenever they heard the sound of screaming Jews being taken to the death camps? Like when the Christian Catholic Church expelled the Jews from Spain in 1492? Like when the Christian English expelled the Jews from England in 1290?
Yeshua said: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Delete"The mystery of the seven stars which thou saw in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which you saw are the seven churches."
They are called to repentance where Yeshua deems fit. But, candlesticks never the less.
The bright light is Yeshua, the oil is the Holy Spirit, the Church is the menorah.