Wednesday, March 20, 2013

Carl Kinbar's and Stuart Dauerman's Message to Gentiles "May You Never Have Shabbat Rest and May You Eat Swine All the Days of Your Life"


Here's the passage to which I refer in the title of this post:

"The Church is right to affirm that Christians need not take on signs of Israel’s calling (Sabbath, circumcision, food laws, and others). The distinction between the Jewish people and those who follow Messiah from the nations is built into God’s plan to redeem people and the cosmos. This plan and this distinction began in the calling of Abraham’s descendants to be the people of blessing and of the nations to mutually bless the descendants of Abraham." [Emphasis added]

By the way, there's no such thing as "church";  please see my earlier post:  CLICK HERE FOR LINK


  1. Lol, funny title. Their argument as you stated below, is built off a presupposition that such a thing as a "Church" exist within scriptures.

    They claim that the distinction starts in Abraham, which I agree, but Paul claims that gentiles are now sons of Abraham, through faith obviously, we can't change our blood or genetics... So now those who are part of Abraham have embraced a distinction that is also distinct from the world. They clump all gentiles into the world, yet there is a very big difference between gentiles who are sons of God and those who are not. In their effort to create and maintain a distinction, they end up blurring distinctions, the irony is growing stronger.

    1. One other point:

      They stated that Christianity was right to not accept the Torah for themselves. Interesting... because the real reason they(Christianity) do not accept it(the Torah) across the board, is not because of an identity issue or possibly blurring of distinctions, but because they believe God is done with Israel and the Law was a curse. It is funny how subtle words can be twisted and used for personal gain, we have to pay attention to the details.

  2. I'm just grateful to G-d that through his spirit and his word he continues to make his people (Jew and Gentile) more and more lawful, in spite of false teachings.

    May G-d make us more and more lawful and less and less rebellious as Christ's return nears us.

    Blessings Brothers!


    1. That's right, brother. What is occurring now is unstoppable because G-d is the one drawing the Gentiles into Israel to be one with their Jewish brothers. No man or organization of men can stop this from occurring.

  3. "No man or organization of men can stop this from occurring."

    Yes, that's the awesome truth....we don't need to be discouraged, but faith only in the finished work of Yeshua Messiah and the Ruach haKodesh. Shalom Peter!

  4. Your title is untruthful. I have never expressed the opinion, nor do I believe, the RIDICULOUS idea that non-Jews may not enjoy Sabbath rest or the wish that they would eat pork all the days of their lives.

    Also, the paragraph you quote is not my wording: it is Derek's summary of my summary of what some others have written.

    I'll check in later this year. In the meanwhile, be well.

    1. Carl,

      Do you believe that Shabbat is a unique, sign-commandment given to Israel via the Sinaitic Covenant? And do you believe that Gentile Believers are excluded from the Sinaitic Covenant?

      Apparently your students (e.g. Derek Leman) are under the impression that your answer to both questions is an emphatic "YES!"

      Have your students misunderstood your position???

  5. All of this confused mishegas occurs because of the attempted hermaphroditic fusion of the ideas of the historic Jewish community with those of the historic Christian community, under the guise of "messianic" or "one new man" or "one law', et. nauseum....the fact is that the "messianic" world, Jew and gentile, represents Evangelical/Charismatic/Fundamentalist Christianity with gefilte fish on its breath...and a few songs in E minor...and a "roll your own" approach to the appropriation of Jewish liturgy as a one ends up with these bizarre, convoluted argmuents about the role of Jew/Gentile, Grace/Torah; Sinai Covenant/Finished Work of Christ..all because of a mistaken attempt to lead Jewish people out of the tribe so they can be "saved" (!!!!!!!!)
    Jews don't have to worry about eternal life, as the Talmud says, "All Israel has a place in the world to come" (Sanhedrin 10:1). Jews need to keep focused on their connection to and role in the historic Tribe and don't become "the lost sheep of the House of Israel" by falling into Avodah Zarah.

    1. Alan,

      I just have several quick points:

      (1) Yeshua, who is the Jewish Messiah, taught His followers to keep the Torah;
      (2) Messianic Jews are gradually shedding the anti-Judaic biases inherited from Christianity, learning to follow Yeshua as Messiah and His teaching regarding the Torah of Moses;
      (3) It is not idolatry to follow Yeshua.

      Thanks for visiting and commenting. We appreciate hearing your perspective.