"In light of Auschwitz, any deliberate attempt to convert Jews to Christianity can be seen only as a more subtle form of Hitler's 'final solution'--the plan to erase Jews from the face of the earth," Eva Fleischner
Christians hold to an anti-Judaism, a belief that Judaism is bad and Christianity (any of the Christianities) should be normative--even for Jews.
For this reason, I believe Christians should not evangelize Jews in the way they currently view evangelism.
Evangelism is proselytization, making someone conform to your lifestyle--essentially making clones of yourself and your religion. Christianity teaches that the mitzvot of Torat Moshe (a.k.a. Jewishness) has been abolished and that one should follow the customs of Christianity (i.e. pagan customs mixed with Biblical customs). So when a Christian proselytizes, the result is an anti-Semitic, anti-Judaic rampage of destruction.
So Eva Fleischner was correct.
What should Christians do then? They should devote themselves to studying Torah and Jewish tradition, to forming One Law communities. Only then can they proselytize and achieve a result that does not involve, in the aggregate, a second holocaust.
I agree with this, which is also why I believe Christianity has been unsuccessful among the Jewish people, this does not mean it has not been successful among the gentiles, which of course, it is a religion built, run and for gentiles. But Paul had a different vision for the gentiles who had now converted to his religion and joined the covenant, the result would start provoking the Jews to jealousy, Christianity does not provoke Jews to jealousy, thus we know Paul did not preach Christianity. On the other hand, gentiles responsible to the covenant they joined does provoke to jealousy, also something Christianity does not do.
ReplyDeletePaul tells us in Romans 11, that he magnifies his ministry to the gentiles, in order to provoke his fellow Jews. Knowing that Christianity is not the answer to this dilemma, one has to ask, then what is?
And I agree with you, One Law, the gentiles being responsible to Israel, to the Covenant they are part of, thus the Torah, taking hold of the blessings, owning up to the curses, etc. And I have seen the provocation with my own eyes, :D.
So Matthew 28 should read,
ReplyDeleteMatthew 28:18-20 HCSB Then Jesus came near and said to them, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations (except for the Jewish people), baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Is that what we're saying, because if so I would have to absolutely disagree. That would seem to go directly against Paul's instruction:
Romans 1:15-16 HCSB So I am eager to preach the good news to you also who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God's power for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek.
If anything, the Gospel should be preached to the Jewish people first!
Perhaps you and I are misunderstanding each other? Could it be that your use of the word "proselytization" (which has a negative connotation) and my use of the terms "preaching the Gospel" are the issue?
Shalom, brother. Yes, any disagreement is most likely the result of a miscommunication on my part.
DeleteI absolutely agree that the gospel is to the Jew first. But we must define gospel. It is the "good message" or "good news." What is this good news? It depends on the audience. For Jews, the good news is that Yeshua has renewed the national covenant of Israel in such a way that each Jew who accepts Yeshua as the Messiah and asks for forgiveness may indeed be forgiven and have eternal life (as opposed to eternal condemnation). For gentiles, the good news is that Yeshua has renewed the national covenant of Israel in such a way that even gentiles may join the covenants and receive Yeshua's forgiveness to have eternal life (as opposed to eternal condemnation). In short, the gospel or "good news" is that everyone who believes in Yeshua can belong to the national covenant of Israel, come under the atonement of the True Passover Lamb, and truly become kindred with G-d's family through Yeshua's blood.
The Christian "good news" is a bit different. It says that the Old Covenant is obsolete (not renewed through Yeshua) and consequently all we must do is pray a quick prayer to Jesus and then we're saved. There's no covenants or laws to worry about. Jesus abolished the Law. If you follow the Law then you are crucifying Jesus all over again, etc. In short, the Christian gospel makes it a sin to be a Jew, to follow the Torah of Moses.
So that's why I said that Christians shouldn't evangelize "in the way that they currently view evangelism."
Now, if a Christian wants to preach the true gospel then that's great. But then they wouldn't really be a Christian at that point; they'd really fall under the category of Messianic. They'd be a Messianic preaching a Messianic gospel.
So I suppose all this boils down to the difference between the Christian version of the gospel and the Messianic version of the gospel. So it's a matter of terms. Hopefully this has clarified my use of the terms. I see the true gospel as pronomian; an antinomian gospel seems to me to be a false gospel.
It seems to me the problem is with the one who hears the good news rather than those sent to preach the good news. It's tempting to blame the messenger for failing to deliver the message correctly.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is....the best delivery of the message of the good news WAS sent to the "Jew first" by the perfect messenger. The King himself gave the message of the Almighty and like Samuel it was G-d who was rejected.
The reason they could not understand his words...
"Yeshua said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from G-d; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Is this still truth? Has something changed? No....those who are of G-d hear his words....those who are not of G-d does not hear his words.
Anon,
DeleteYou are missing the point, there will be those who reject it no matter what, but how much more so when it is taught flawed. If someone goes around preaching a Jesus who did away with the Law or taught contrary to God, no Jew in their right mind would fall for such nonsense, thus the message lacks context and is simply not acceptable. It would be like trying to portray the God of the Hebrew Bible from the Koran, it just does not work. Although just because we might get the message correct does not mean a Jew will believe when Jesus is portrayed correctly, but at least there is more to chew on and consider, versus a Jesus who is no longer Jewish, which will work for any gentile because they do not know any better.
The point is, we should in the least teach the Gospel correctly, versus what is and has been taught and I do believe it will have a stronger impact on Jews who do not believe, because it will involve putting Jesus back into Judaism or at least the context of Jews, versus where he sits right now, from a Gentile perspective with no regard to the Jews or Judaism, because from a gentile perspective, he is bigger than all of this, thus it does not matter, but this is type of thinking is in error.
Zion, I disagree I missed the point.
ReplyDeleteBut to clarify your position....you think the Jews will go before the judgment seat and say "it's not our fault, those gentiles explained it wrong to me"?
Ha....
There was nothing wrong with the message nor the messenger that went to Israel. Yeshua did not leave his message to Israel to the gentiles but delivered it himself.
That we should repeat his message correctly and in context....I agree.
As I stated, Although just because we might get the message correct does not mean a Jew will believe when Jesus is portrayed correctly
DeleteBut you also forget, that not all rejected Him, there were myriads of Jews who came to believe. Can we say the same today or for the past 2000 years?
Zion, what makes you think I forget not all rejected him? Did I say that? You are reading more into my comment that was there.
ReplyDeleteLet me state my position another way. A few are on the path that leads to eternal life but MANY are on the path to destruction. Other than the few, they did not and do not listen to Moses. Yeshua said that if they had believed Moses they would believe him.
If they will not hear Moses, and they will not hear the prophets, and they refuse to listen to the Son, and do not hear the Holy Spirit.....how much do you expect them to listen to gentiles?
The question is should Christians evangelize Jews? I say preach the gospel in truth with context...and do not take responsibility for those who do not hear. They will answer for themselves.
"I say preach the gospel in truth with context..."
ReplyDeleteAnd what is the truth of the Gospel? Discarding Torah?
"I say preach the gospel in truth with context..."
ReplyDeleteAnd what is the truth of the Gospel? Discarding Torah?
"And what is the truth of the Gospel? Discarding Torah?"
ReplyDelete"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."
Ah! I'm relieved Peter. I've been hearing a lot about how Catholics should not be evangelized by evangelicals and Jews should not be evangelized by Christians etc. and I came at your statement with that preconception in mind.
ReplyDeleteIf I understand you clearly you are referring to what we call "cultural christianity". It's like when we were in Africa and the missionaries, upon converting the Africans, would insist they begin wearing shirts and ties. Or when we were in Quebec, the American Christians would insist the Quebecers shave their beards.
You're not talking about the true Gospel of the Mashiach but the weird quasi-nationalistic cum business religion that prevails in this country.
Gotcha. For the record, I am definitely neither anomian nor antinomian. So in answer to your question, "Should we foist cultural christianity on poor unsuspecting people?" I would answer with an unqualified no. Let's give them and show them the real deal.
"Let's give them and show them the real deal."
ReplyDeleteHeart warming! :) And we will, if G-d be willing!