Thursday, May 9, 2013

The Prophets vs. Boaz Michael: A Brief Look at the Prophetic Expectation for Non-Jews in the "Day" of the New Covenant Age


So James in Acts 15 quotes from the LXX of Amos 9:

"In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen..."

According to James, this "day" is evident in the story of Cornelius:

"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name"
The "day" refers to the dawning of the New Covenant Age.  What else happens on this day?
"In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you'" (Zech. 8:23)
Does that sound to you like Jews and non-Jews are meant to have separate communities???

Please, brothers and sisters, do not listen to the false teachings of "First Fruit of Zion" and Boaz Michael or anyone from the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations.  You are NOT meant to stay in church on a permanent basis.  You know this:  doesn't your spirit grieve there?  I know that it does!  Because my spirit grieves there too!

The Prophetic Expectation is that Non-Jews will grab hold of a Jew (in a nice way of course) and start down a path to learning the Torah of Moses (Acts 15:21).

I want to help the Christians in churches but my spirit cannot take it there much longer.  And I'll not have my daughter identifying with those who hate our Judaic heritage.  May Heaven protect her from the spirit of lawlessness!  And may G-d protect her bashert!



27 comments:

  1. "Does that sound to you like Jews and non-Jews are meant to have separate communities???"

    Obviously, something didn't quite work out in the first century and to this day, two thousand years later. If anything, the animosity generated by supersessionism toward Jews increased to levels unknown in all of their previous history, culminating in Holocaust. In the first century, the synagogue was full of G-d-fearers. After the first century, the synagogue was labeled the "den of robbers".

    However, does One-Law / Two-House / Hebrew Roots somehow remedy the problem of supersessionism, as it purports? No, in fact, quite the opposite is true, as the constant stream of vilifications, denunciations and accusations (of racism, of worshiping Jewishness, of selling out to Judaism, of "rabbinisim") toward Messianic Jewish organisations and personalities aptly demonstrates.

    And while many mainstream Christians finally re-approach the Jewish community (including the Messianic Jewish one), acknowledge the sins of Christianity, write joint books with Jews, and meet during friendly conferences, the distance between the so called "independent messianics" and Jews has actually grown.

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  2. Here's a post I wrote about a year ago: Supersessionism in the Messianic Movement:

    http://dailyminyan.com/2011/01/11/supersessionism-in-the-messianic-movement/

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  3. You are not playing with a full deck, Gene...

    One more time:

    IT IS MJ UMJC STYLE THAT WANT THE GENTILES OUT...How quick one forgets...You and me very well know that MJ will never become a legitimate part of mainstream Judaism with Gentiles in their midst. The leaders of the Alpha-bet soup are not stupid (I have to give it to them), first they reduced the gentiles in their midst to second class citizens, and now they are openly advocating for them to stay in the Churches. So you can talk Supersessioninsm until you are blue in the face but the facts are clear: How come all the Jews in the Churches are still there? Wasn't MJ a movement to witnessed to Jews? You said yourself,that there are hardly any Jews in the OL movement, so why are you so afraid and put out your energy to attack OL, why don't we see you guys in the Churches trying to win back the hundred of thousands Jews in there?

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    1. I believe that teaching Christians, especially leaders and pastors, to forcefully reject anti-Judaism and repent of supersessionism has a far better chance (in the long term) in reaching out to Jews in the churches among them, who come to listen to the sermons every Sunday, to help them rethink their waywardness from their Jewish heritage,

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    2. Dan,

      Thank you, brother. You've mentioned this before but I didn't get it until now. It makes sense now.

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  4. And how can MJ do that when they want to throw out the Gentiles in their midst, or in the case of Ahavat Zion put a sign up front "Gentiles rouse?..."

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  5. Can't you read? Shall I write it for you in Hebrew? (sorry, I don't know Russian...)

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  6. Messianics, sadly, need to forget about acceptance by mainstream Judaism... over in Israel the sentiment is "some Israelis hate the religious. Some hate the secular. But everyone hates you (Messianics)"

    Any attempts we make to appease the Jewish community by changing our theology to pander to their wants only weakens our claim to standing on Biblical truth over traditions and ultimately undermines everything we should stand for.

    Yes supersessionism sucks and yes there has been a whole bunch of bad things done to the Jewish people in the name of Jesus (that's how my ancestors ended up in mexico) but don't forget Yeshua promised us that there would come a time (and it's here) where we would be hated, persecuted and kicked out of synagogues for His name.

    You make peace with someone who views you as their enemy by loving them through the persecution not by giving in to their demands.

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    1. "Any attempts we make to appease the Jewish community by changing our theology to pander to their wants only weakens our claim to standing on Biblical truth over traditions and ultimately undermines everything we should stand for."

      First of all, a lot of water passed under the bridge in the last two thousand years and the world is not the same and neither are the actors. (This is for those who try to apply first century NT accounts to today as if nothing happened to the Jewish people at the hands of the Christians).

      Secondly, if your theology is weak and is a house of cards, it needs changing, because when it finally crumbles, and it will, it will fall hard. But it shouldn't be done someone else' sake, especially if you don't believe it yourself, to appease someone, but for the sake of truth.

      The reality is, most (with a few exceptions) "Messianics" in Israel are evangelicals who have no use either for Judaism and Torah observance. Their theology and practice is Christian Protestant evangelical through and through. For them, rejection of Torah as binding is the norm.

      Andre - to you, the Jewish community is not something you directly relate to, since you never were part of that community to begin with nor are you now. Because of this, it's for you to say "do not appease the Jewish community". Jews are "them" for you, not "us".

      I have a nice post addressing just that.

      Splitting the Jewish baby:

      http://dailyminyan.com/2012/10/25/splitting-the-jewish-baby/

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    2. Correction: Because of this, it's EASY for you to say "do not appease the Jewish community". Jews are "them" for you, not "us".

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  7. Peter,

    I'm breaking my own rule by openly posting here, but your continual, personal attacks against people in Messianic Judaism does not reflect favorably on the body of believers or upon yourself. I haven't come here to engage in one more of an endless series of verbal "spitting matches" but to let you know I have composed a blog post that is an open letter to you.

    Here's the link: http://mymorningmeditations.com/2013/05/10/do-messianic-jews-hate-christians/

    Well over a month ago I "unbanned" you on my blog but each comment you make will still be moderated, so there'll be a delay between when you click "Publish," should you choose to comment there, and when I approve it (I'll try to be fair, but there are limits to what I'll tolerate..on the other hand, I've given Dan a wide latitude). Also, I'm going out of town on Tuesday morning, so any comments requiring moderation after that and for the remainder of that week may be delayed in being approved.

    Registering disdain for both Messianic Judaism and Christianity from a position of victimization and reactionary anger isn't Biblically supported or sustainable. I encourage you to find a better way to draw closer to God and refraining from throwing well over 90% of the disciples of Messiah under a bus every time you post a blog.

    If you choose, read what I wrote. If you choose, reply, but try to keep the overarching theme of what I'm saying in mind. This isn't an invitation to debate tiny, arcane, and obscure interpretations of scripture. It's an invitation to stop responding to the sense of victimhood upon which your messages are based and to find an alternate way to dialog.

    Your choice.

    -James

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    1. James,

      While it sounds like a lot of fun having you "moderate" my comments, I must respectfully decline.

      Shalom,

      Peter

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    2. As you wish, Peter. Be well.

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    3. James, why do I smell Boaz behind that comment? Tell him not to be scared, we will not bite him. But we will cut his theology to pieces... BTW, if you would have reading this blog regularly, (well, you are, don't you? How come you know that Peter is "bashing" your side of the isle?)You would have seen where I admonished people for attacking Boaz personally...Have a good Shabbat.

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    4. Hi Dan. Yes, I have seen you admonish people for personally attacking Boaz and believe me, I'm glad you did.

      No, I wrote my blog post entirely of my own volition. Boaz doesn't know a thing about it unless he happened to read it. Try to take my comments at face value, Dan. What you see is what you get.

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  8. If there is any serious deficiency in today's Messianic world, however one defines or classifies it, it is that the fundamentalist attitudes of far too many its people have yet to be burned off. Hence, when controversial topics arise, you encounter a great amount of unbridled zeal.

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  9. "First of all, a lot of water passed under the bridge in the last two thousand years and the world is not the same and neither are the actors. (This is for those who try to apply first century NT accounts to today as if nothing happened to the Jewish people at the hands of the Christians). "

    It did not deter you from believing Yeshua is Messiah, did it?

    "
    Secondly, if your theology is weak and is a house of cards, it needs changing, because when it finally crumbles, and it will, it will fall hard. But it shouldn't be done someone else' sake, especially if you don't believe it yourself, to appease someone, but for the sake of truth."

    Oh, patronizing... is that what they (yes, they the leaders of MJ UMJC style. I call them they because I would not be a member in a club that does not wants me and my brothers Gentile believers. Grautcho) teach now in MJ?

    "The reality is, most (with a few exceptions) "Messianics" in Israel are evangelicals who have no use either for Judaism and Torah observance. Their theology and practice is Christian Protestant evangelical through and through. For them, rejection of Torah as binding is the norm."

    Well, Halleluyah, Gene, you found one group that is even below OL...Good for you....

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    1. "It did not deter you from believing Yeshua is Messiah, did it?"

      Not only that, it doesn't deter me from being good friends with Christians or thinking that Christians being in churches is a good idea. What's your point?

      "club that does not wants me and my brothers Gentile believers."

      You are the one who wants to do nothing with the majority of Gentiles - Christians.

      "Well, Halleluyah, Gene, you found one group that is even below OL...Good for you...."

      Dan, if they are below your group, that should make someone like you happy. Although, I suspect that you'd consider everybody not OL as below your group (that's why OL can't get along with either Christians or MJs).

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  10. "Not only that, it doesn't deter me from being good friends with Christians or thinking that Christians being in churches is a good idea. What's your point?"

    You just said it. You wish Christians to stay in the churches, like god forbid they will come to your synagogue to persecute you...Did I say Galut mentality?

    I am the one? Wow, that's a twist...My community comprised of mostly Gentiles and in all the years not once I told them to go back to the Churches or treated them as unequal. No more ammunition, so you dig at the bottom of the barrel?

    "(that's why OL can't get along with either Christians or MJs)."

    Right, Gene, we are all standing in astonishment watching the mile long lines of pastors and Church leaders knocking down FFOZ doors to get material...how is it working for him?

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    1. Dan, I like it far better what FFOZ is doing than what you are not doing. The FFOZ is making a real difference in people's lives (beyond their publications) and working hard at it, while all you do is whine from the sidelines.

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  11. Gene, where was the last time you visited Las-Vegas? you seem to know so much about me....

    FYI, we have a Torah community here, and we teach Gentiles who left the Church that the Torah is also for them...I am doing my part, thank you very much....

    And you know something, when I tell people I am Jewish, it is not a lie or a deception....

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  12. I enjoy coming here and seeing your posts brother Peter, Dan as I learn this way too. However I dont know even know how to put what I'm about to say into words... What gospel does brother Gene offer?? I mean does he really mean for christians to go back to a religion that was clearly born and proven to be so of a mixture of pagan beliefs, constantine, augustine and the so called "faith fathers"? is this really what the heart of Father is saying to us?? that we are to remain not separate? because more so than ever before unless you are reformed theology (and even them too now) the churches are so like the world , not at all set apart or sanctified! this is really a sad gospel he offers us, to make up our own religion, even more sad when you know we have a G-d that hates mixture... I had to speak up...May this TL fall and fall quickly because I see deception written all over it. I dont want to be jewish, I want to follow my Messiah and whatever he tells me to do I will do and he said to us all to follow him. Did he not?

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    1. Non-Jews: We want the Truth!

      Gene: You can't handle the Truth!!!

      LOL

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  13. your last paragraph: "I want to help the Christians in churches but my spirit cannot take it there much longer. And I'll not have my daughter identifying with those who hate our Judaic heritage. May Heaven protect her from the spirit of lawlessness! And may G-d protect her bashert!"

    I'm a Christian that attends a LCMS Church. If you find our company such a loathsome thing, perhaps you should go elsewhere. After all, you seem to think we are all anti-Semites. I can't fix your sorry attitude and I don't want to risk being infected by it,

    I feel sad for your daughter, perhaps she can call the DSHS and be located somewhere else other than your home! They could rescue her from you.

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  14. Peter is not merely referring to anti-Semitism. The church, in general, is severely corrupt, theologically and in practice. Especially in the 20th-21st century. Peter wants to reach out to the fellow brothers and sisters in Christ there, but he's commenting about the grieving of his spirit that he experiences when he attends church. I understand completely. I've grown up in the church and learned first hand that it is not about the true faith according to the record of Scripture. It's a mixed bag that preaches much truth but also gets a lot wrong and over-elevates tradition just like Judaism and [most of] Messianic Judaism.

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