Tuesday, October 16, 2012
What Do You Say When They Ask What Religion You Practice?
Judah has a new and interesting post which you can find here.
I asked him a question which I'd now like to ask you: how do you identify your religion to others? Do you say "Hebrew Roots"? Or "Messianic Judaism"? I'm just curious what you all say.
At church, people will ask if I'm a Messianic Jew. I tell them that I practice Messianic Judaism. Now, the church where I go happens to be closely networked with a local Messianic synagogue so when I say this people understand what I'm talking about. They even understand the difference between someone who is Messianic Jewish by religion and someone who is Messianic Jewish by ethnicity. However, in other churches they'd probably just look at me with a puzzled expression.
When I'm out in public, I also tell people that I believe in Messianic Judaism. And I'll ask if they've heard of it before. Just today a man said that he hadn't heard of it. So I explained it to him and we spoke for a very long time.
So what do you all say? What are your experiences?
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I usually say Christianity mixed with Judaism, faith in Messiah, Judaism as practice. Considering there is no monolithic Christianity or Judaism, more has to be explained. But that is the gist. I would rarely use Messianic Jewish, as I do not want anyone to think I am a Jew and I do not mean that in a negative way. As the best testimony, I want people to know that I am a gentile, 110% of course.
ReplyDeleteI am Jewish and believe in Messiah, so, by definition I am a Messianic Jew. Since MJ is in a sorry state i do not identify myself with them. When people ask what my religion is I say: I practice the religion of the Bible.
ReplyDeleteI believe the true definition of MJ is summed up in keeping the words of Yeshua, having and doing, so would agree with Dan. "I practice the religion of the Bible".
ReplyDeleteThis concept is held captive by worldly men, false teachers and false prophets of many religions and denominations pf Judaism, Christianity, etc.
"Let my people go" and "come out of her my people".
Those are all good responses. By the way, I just read Judah's response to my comment on that link. I thought he had a pretty good response too:
ReplyDelete"My religious community is not an attempt to emulate Judaism, so I don't say "Messianic Judaism". I simply say, "Messianic" or "Hebrew Roots."
That's an interesting take. From my perspective, I've never thought of what I believe in any terms other than Judaism. So I guess we all have slightly different perspectives.
The term "Jew" includes the sense of tribal affiliation. Yet Yeshua didn't (to my knowledge) bestow Jewish tribal affiliation to the gentiles. Nor did He suggest that the gentiles would be accepted by anyone other than Himself and His disciples--His kahal. He seemed to treat the gentiles as converts ("make disciples of all the goyim"). But converts to what? What are our choices? We've only got Christianity and Judaism. And of those choices which one is closer to what Yeshua practiced?
But if we say "Judaism" then that creates a terminology issue. Because one who practices Judaism is commonly understood to be a Jew. Furthermore, with gentiles practicing mitzvot associated with Judaism (and only Judaism) there's a perception issue. Because everyone practicing the mitzvot is commonly perceived to be a Jew.
Anyway, those are the issues as I see them.
But converts to what? What are our choices? We've only got Christianity and Judaism. And of those choices which one is closer to what Yeshua practiced?
DeleteHistorically speaking, Christianity never existed in the Apostles eyes or in Yeshua's teachings, Christianity (whether or not God used this movement, does not matter) was not established by the Apostles or the Messiah. It did not exist, till some hundreds of years later, formed out of an anti-semitic movement (hardly sounds godly). The fact that the Apostles thought it was good for the gentiles to go to the Synagogues to learn Moses, was in itself a definition of what they believed gentiles were taking upon as religious belief, their own religion, the religion of Abraham, now that these gentiles were considered sons of Abraham by faith.
Saying that the gentiles were given their own religion (Christianity), is both ignorant of history and the scriptures.
Regardless though, these are only titles, they do not completely define who we are and what we do. We simply believe in following the Messiah, we might end up looking Jewish along the way, too bad or too good, just depends the angle you are coming from. As long as we are obeying God, it does not matter if people agree or disagree, and those who attack our beliefs. Although we should still treat those with kindness, we must serve God first.
Zion,
DeleteNow that you defined Christianity let's also define Judaism, since no form of Judaism that exists today is biblical....
Dan,
DeleteWhat would you define as biblical Judaism, versus what we see today, I realize there is much different (since Modern Judaism was redefined for Diaspora), I am only asking what makes the biggest differences?
Biblical Judaism for me is God appearing to mankind as a man. To me this is core revelation of God to us. How many Jews do you think believe that?
DeleteNote that i said Mankind, not Israel.
Biblical Judaism for me is God appearing to mankind as a man. To me this is core revelation of God to us. How many Jews do you think believe that?
DeleteNote that i said Mankind, not Israel.
What do you think about the Apostles and Yeshua, attending Synagogues in the 1st Century, was that still considered Biblical Judaism, because even after Yeshua left, they continued to go to the Synagogues, and they instructed Gentiles to do so as well.
Well, that is in the Bible and it is Judaism....There are Gentiles today who are going to synagogues, only the synagogues of today are practicing a different Judaism then the Judaism that was practiced in the 1st Century...
DeleteIt is like the difference between silent movies and the talkies.....
Well, that is in the Bible and it is Judaism....There are Gentiles today who are going to synagogues, only the synagogues of today are practicing a different Judaism then the Judaism that was practiced in the 1st Century...
DeleteRight, it has been redefined, as Diaspora Judaism. But does that mean you should not associate, heck I even associate with Christianity, and historically, to the 1st and 2nd centuries, Christianity never even existed, at least Judaism existed, even if it took on some major changes.
Nothing to do with associating. we are talking about what religion we say we follow when asked.
DeleteWhy did people go to synagogues?
DeleteWhy did people go to synagogues?
DeleteI am not sure the context of what your question is referring to, but if you are asking in the context of the 1st Century, Acts 15, tells us that specifically the gentiles would go to learn the Law of Moses and also fellowship with their new religious faith.
Nothing to do with associating. we are talking about what religion we say we follow when asked.
DeleteOk, but lets get more specific, do you wear a kippah? Or do you say any of the traditional prayers, or participate in any of the traditions that post date 1st Century Judaism. There is a chance you are participating in what you term a non-biblical Judaism?
Where does the Bible say not to pray? Lets be more specific, where does the Bible say not to use prayers that were written by Jews?
DeleteDid the High priest wear a kippah, or a head covering? were does the Bible say I shouldn't?
It's an interesting question, isn't it? People who follow the Jewish Messiah ... is their religion a Judaism?
ReplyDeleteOur friend Gene Shlomovich agrees with Christianity and says no, Jesus created a new religion. Gene's view is nuanced: he believes it's not a new religion for Jews, only a new religion for gentiles.
On the other hand, if one argues that following the Jewish Messiah is a Judaism, then we are in fact Messianic Judaism, just not the bilateral kind.
One could even argue that Christianity is a kind of Judaism, but it's hard to say that when it has discarded the Torah. (Then again, some would say Reform and other liberal sects of Judaism have done the same, but are still forms of Judaism.)
This certainly a grey area; one we should avoid majoring on.
It's a hard transition from serving in the temple to being the temple.
ReplyDelete"Why did people go to synagogues?"
ReplyDeleteDid Yeshua go?
"Why did people go to synagogues?"
ReplyDeleteI think I know why people go today, I was wondering why they went say when the temple was down the street. Were they at the time of Yeshua like a school? Was there more? Sorry for my ignorance, just curious. Thanks
I simply practice Judaism.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I have no problem with the term "Messianic "Judaism" I do not think it is a correct term. Orthodox Judaism, its modern flavor going back to its roots in the Second Temple period, is profoundly "Messianic." Who the Messiah is, is the main difference. A difference that does not invite the exclusive use of the modifying adjective.