Tuesday, July 23, 2013

Derek's New Post Against One-Law Messianics: A Place For You to Respond (If He Censors Your Comments)

So in Derek's most recent post entitled "Torah and Non-Jews:  A Practical Primer", Derek is at it once again, saying that non-Jews are excluded from the People of Israel:  CLICK HERE FOR LINK.

So here's a place where you can respond without fear of being censored:  all viewpoints are welcome on this blog.

Also, for those non-Jews who have come to the truth and realize that they are Kingdom Israelites (i.e. members of Am Yisrael, the People of Israel), remember to pray for people like Derek.  Derek has set himself up to be a Jewish rabbi (though he is neither Jewish nor an expert on Jewish law) and he is leading many people astray with his non-Biblical teachings.
"Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.”" (Isaiah 56:3)
Shalom,

Peter

11 comments:

  1. I guess my question, as always, is:

    What covenant do the DI people think the Gentiles enter into God's covenants under and when did that mystery covenant exclude them from the commands of God?

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    1. Exactly. Yes, I think they believe in some sort of "mystery covenant."

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  2. Andre,

    I just read the primer, and the reality is, most of these guys never address covenant relationship to God, concerning gentiles... and it is the same spiel time and time again. Derek has offered nothing new in terms of arguments, this does not mean everything he is saying is wrong. I agree with many of his points, however he fails to address first and foremost, covenant relationship. He promotes Jewish traditional understanding, even over Apostolic Writings, this is seen clearly in his conclusions... as for being a supposed "primer", the relationship between Gentiles to Israel is simply missing. Of course this would not be a topic in a primer coming from someone who is not Jewish, yet claims to be, which even traditional Judaism would disagree with.

    I think people like Derek ignore "covenant relationship" on purpose, for those who accept a hard line following of Jewish tradition, the Apostolic writings are contradictive. We see this in examples found in the Apostolic Writings, such as Acts 10, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him", Acts 15 and/or Galatians 2, where Peter separates himself from the gentiles, in order to follow the traditional view concerning gentiles. The Apostolic Writings are contradictive in many ways to the traditional view concerning gentiles relationship to God and Paul rebukes him.

    This is not said to bash traditional Judaism, as much of what any of us do, is based on the wisdom found in the traditions, however, it does show 'what should' and 'should not' be elevated or equal to scriptures, and in this case, Derek has put the traditional view concerning Gentiles before the Scriptures.

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  3. I'm disappointed to see talmidim argue over such things when Yeshua actually warned "Don't presume to say to yourselves,'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones!" (Matthew 3:8-10 cp Luke 3:8-9). I feel like some Jewish folk have forgotten that their origin and birth was in the land of the Canaanites, with their father being Amorite and their mother a Hittite (Ezekiel 16:2-3). Abraham was not a Jew until God got hold of him. The Jews were not a people until God made them so. The Pharisees and these poor folk forgot this.
    Doesn't the Torah command that a foreigner who chooses to obey Hashem and cleave to His people are to "become like a native of the land...the same law applying to both"? (Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:33-34; Numbers 15:13-16) And don't we have a clear example of what that meant in Ruth the formerly Moabitess? (Ruth 1:16 cp Matthew 1:5)
    This line of reasoning these people use is nothing more than arrogance and they need to remember that when one rejects Hashem's will, one will be cut off from the people, regardless of one's birth origin. (Numbers 9:13; 15:29-31)

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    1. Cajun, great points from scripture, however, their argument is based on a traditional view in Judaism, one that does not recognize the Messiah and those who follow him, which includes gentiles who are now adopted sons of Abraham.

      The traditional view, concerning gentiles goes no further than Noah, as is understood as the Noahide Laws in Judaism. Thus there is a clear disconnect between the traditional Jewish view and the view we see in the Apostolic Writings, concerning Gentiles who are now in the Messiah.

      This is intentional on their (UMJC type Theology) part, because to accept one view is to deny the other, you can't have it both ways, thus they have decided to accept the traditional view over the view found in the Apostolic Writings, and thus scripture is not the argument, because they don't believe scripture can be understood outside of tradition. So if upholding the traditional Jewish view concerning gentiles, they must maintain that gentiles are Noahides, not sons of Abraham... Derek for example, through many of his blogs, uses Noah for many of his arguments concerning gentile responsibility to God, clearly proving he views Noah as the gentile foundation and not Abraham, upholding the traditional Jewish view.

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    2. Cajun,

      Amen. All good points from Scripture.

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  4. Thank you for your explanation Zion. I appreciate the time you put into it and the kindness it represents. Yet regardless of whether they choose to acknowledge the validity of the Scriptures on the issue, the Ruach ha Kodesh is convicting them that it is applicable, for:
    • Isaiah 55:10-11 HCSB For just as rain and snow fall from heaven, and do not return there without saturating the earth, and making it germinate and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11 so My word that comes from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and will prosper in what I send it to do."
    and,
    • Hebrews 4:12 HCSB ...the word of God is living and effective and sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as to divide soul, spirit, joints, and marrow; it is a judge of the ideas and thoughts of the heart.

    With such people I choose to not play philosophical games but instead stick to the Scriptures, trusting the Ruach to convict them. I know you guys debate these issues all the time, and if that is the mission Hashem has given you then go forth in the strength of the Lord.

    But as for me, my mind is directed by the command to rebuke a fool once or twice and then have nothing more to do with him lest he consider himself wise (Proverbs 26:4-5) and to:
    • Titus 3:9-11 HCSB …avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

    Both you and Peter are quite bright and obviously zealous for the Lord. It simply pains me to watch so much of your valuable time eaten up dealing with these natives of Chelm who are as likely to change as a leopard is to become striped. To me it’s like continuously planting in rocky, thorny soil. There are so many people with good hearts who want to know how to apply the Word in practical, daily ways. I encourage you both to think about focusing on planting in good soil. I love you both and respect your work. I just want to be sure you hear “Well done. Good use of and multiplication of your talents” at the Bimah seat.

    Forgive me if I am misguided on the issue and count my intentions toward my good.



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    1. Cajun,

      Thank you for your words of advice and the scriptures you posted, I made a commitment to myself to actually completely quit commenting on other blogs (concerning opposing views) or even reading them unless someone brings it to my attention to address, as a few months ago, I felt I was wasting my time and resources, like the realization you stated, I just came lately. I now only comment on these issues for the benefit of the One Law community, I also will comment on these subjects within my own community when the questions are asked, but I do not go out of the way to raise these issues. Where were you a few months ago... :P (either way, some people learn the hard way, pointing at myself...)

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    2. You can point at me too...LOL!

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    3. Cajun,

      I have nothing but the highest respect for you. Still I have to go on the record anytime a false teacher invents a false teaching. Why? Well, if nothing else, I have a little girl and I want her to know where her daddy stands on these issues. Everything I write is for my daughter.

      Again, nothing but the highest respect for you--especially everything you've done for our country. Also, I have nothing but the highest respect for your ministry.

      Blessings,

      Peter

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  5. Besides,
    • Proverbs 29:9 HCSB If a wise man goes to court with a fool, there will be ranting and raving but no resolution.

    Why?
    • Proverbs 18:2 HCSB A fool does not delight in understanding, but only wants to show off his opinions.

    So,
    • Proverbs 14:7 HCSB Stay away from a foolish man; you will gain no knowledge from his speech.

    Because,
    • Proverbs 20:3 HCSB It is honorable for a man to resolve a dispute, but any fool can get himself into a quarrel.

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